This is the fourth instalment of the “Ger Graus Gets Gritty” series. Based on Chapter 4 of his book Through a Different Lens: Lessons from a Life in Education (published by Routledge), this episode tackles one of the most contentious topics in modern education: technology.

Rather than focusing on the technical aspects of digital tools, Professor Dr Ger Graus OBE reframes the conversation around technology as fundamentally a discussion about human behaviour, courage, and trust. From fountain pens to AI, he traces the historical pattern of moral panic that accompanies each technological advancement, arguing that our concerns reveal more about ourselves than about the technology itself.

The conversation challenges the current discourse around banning mobile phones in schools, advocates for student-centered approaches to technology integration, and explores how young people might actually serve as role models for adults when it comes to digital literacy. We discuss engaging students in creating their own codes of conduct and for recognising that technology’s impact—positive or negative—ultimately comes down to how we choose to use it.

Key Quote

On the Mobile Phone Ban Debate:

“The fact that we are actually talking about banning mobile phones from schools is unbelievable. It is literally turning around to your children and to mine and saying, now, for whatever, six, seven, eight hours a day, we’re going to pretend that they don’t exist.”

Key Takeaways

1. Technology Panic is a Historical Pattern, Not a New Phenomenon

Every technological advancement in education—from fountain pens to ballpoint pens, calculators to the Internet, and now AI—has been met with moral panic about “dumbing down” and declining standards. This reveals that our anxieties are less about the technology itself and more about our discomfort with change and our ability to adapt.

2. The Problem Isn’t the Technology—It’s Human Behavior

Technology is neutral; its impact depends entirely on how humans choose to use it. Rather than banning tools like mobile phones, we need to focus on developing appropriate behaviors, codes of conduct, and digital citizenship. The phone sitting on the desk isn’t harmful—it’s how we interact with it that matters.

3. Students Should Be Partners in Creating Technology Policies

Young people are conspicuously absent from public discussions about technology in schools, despite being the most affected stakeholders. Students are capable of creating sophisticated codes of conduct for technology use—often better than adults can create—and are more effective at self-policing when they’ve been part of the solution.

4. We’re Failing at Technology’s Greatest Promise: Equity and Democratization

The Internet represents humanity’s greatest democratizing invention, yet we’ve failed dismally at addressing equity issues both within countries and globally. The gaps in technology access and digital literacy are growing rather than shrinking, which represents a massive missed opportunity for education and society.

5. Young People Are Our Role Models in Technology, Not the Other Way Around

The traditional model of role modeling—where older generations guide younger ones—is reversed when it comes to technology. Adults need to approach young people with respect and humility, learning from their digital fluency and working collaboratively to understand and navigate the technological landscape together.

Join the conversation using #educationonfire and share your stories.

Chapters:

1. 00:01 – Introduction to the Series
2. 01:14 – The Impact of Technology on Education
3. 11:19 – The Role of Technology in Education
4. 15:02 – The Integration of AI in Education
5. 19:15 – The Impact of Technology on Education
6. 27:10 – The Role of Technology in Education
7. 35:02 – The Role of Technology in Education
8. 36:40 – Understanding the Role of Technology in Education
9. 46:31 – The Role We Play in Technology

https://www.gergraus.com

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Show Sponsor – National Association for Primary Education (NAPE)

Their Primary First Journal: https://www.educationonfire.com/nape

In this episode we explore the critical distinction between schooling and education—and why it matters more than ever. Drawing from his book Through a Different Lens: Lessons from a Life in Education, Prof Dr Ger Graus OBE challenges us to rethink how we prepare children not just for exams, but for lifelong learning.

From conversations with Reggio Emilia’s Carla Rinaldi to insights on India’s National Education Plan, this episode examines how different systems approach the fundamental question: is schooling enabling education, or limiting it? Ger and Mark discuss the narrowing of curricula, the disconnect between political agendas and educational best practice, and the untapped potential of museums, libraries, and cultural institutions as essential learning partners.

With passionate calls for cross-party consensus on children’s wellbeing and a reimagining of what it means to truly educate rather than simply school, this conversation is a rallying cry for parents, educators, and policymakers to refocus on what children actually need to thrive in the modern world—not the industrial revolution.

Key Quotes

“The better schooled you are, the better educated you can be if you wish to be.”

“We don’t talk about wellbeing, we talk about not wellbeing. The entire conversation is never about, oh my God, I feel so great. The entire conversation is, I feel so lousy.”

“If you are going to study Shakespeare with children and young people…… they should either get the chance to see the play or to be in it…… you could not be in an outstanding school if you don’t adhere to those things.”

“The bar in England in that sense is set unbelievably low. Please do not look to England as an example of best practice.”

Key Takeaways

1. Schooling ≠ Education – Schooling is a 10-15 year period within a lifetime of education (ages 0-99). In an ideal system, schooling should be an enabler that equips people to become lifelong learners, not just to pass exams or accumulate credentials.
2. The Dutch Advantage – The Dutch language uses the same word for teaching and learning, conceptually removing the artificial separation. This linguistic integration reflects a more holistic approach where teaching and learning are seen as complementary parts of the same process.
3. Cultural Institutions Are Underutilized – Museums, libraries, galleries, theatres, and music venues are crying out for audiences while schools struggle within narrow curricula. There’s enormous untapped potential in creating systematic partnerships between schools and these cultural institutions to enrich both education and teaching.
4. We Need Cross-Party Consensus – Educational policy suffers from constant reinvention with each new government. Creating a consensus on core priorities (wellbeing, music, physical education, etc.) that transcends political cycles would provide stability and allow genuine progress rather than perpetual wheel-reinventing.
5. Shift from “Not Wellbeing” to “Wellbeing” – Current conversations focus on problems (obesity, knife crime, mental health issues) rather than positive wellbeing. Education policy should reframe the dialogue to proactively build wellbeing through entitlements like music, arts, and cultural participation—things that make us feel good, not just prevent us from feeling bad.

Join the conversation using #educationonfire and share your stories.

Chapters:

1. 00:10 – Celebrating Milestones
2. 03:29 – The Distinction Between Schooling and Education
3. 10:31 – The Role of Parents in Education
4. 20:01 – Rethinking Education: The Role of Parents in Homework
5. 27:05 – The Impact of Education on Society
6. 32:55 – The Role of Schools in Education and Parenting
7. 40:08 – Rethinking Education: Community and Personalization
8. 41:59 – The Role of Experience in Knowledge Acquisition
9. 54:39 – The Role of Communities and Schools in Student Well-being
10. 59:32 – The Need for a Collective Movement in Education
11. 01:06:10 – The Future of Education and Learning

https://www.gergraus.com

Get the book – Through a Different Lens: Lessons from a Life in Education

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Show Sponsor – National Association for Primary Education (NAPE)

Their Primary First Journal: https://www.educationonfire.com/nape

This episode explores how children’s aspirations are fundamentally shaped by their experiences and what they’re exposed to. Drawing from Prof Dr Ger Graus’s groundbreaking work with the Wythenshawe Education Action Zone and Manchester Airport, they unpack the reality that children from disadvantaged backgrounds often can’t dream of careers they’ve never seen.

The conversation moves from airports to universities, examining how partnership between education and industry can transform lives. Ger shares compelling research from KidZania revealing that stereotypes are set by age 4, and discusses the Children’s University model that brought families into higher education spaces for the first time.

Ger challenges listeners to think beyond traditional schooling, emphasizing the critical importance of out-of-school experiences, parental engagement, and creating purposeful learning that helps young people discover why education matters—not just what they must learn.

Key Quotes

“If you have a strong purpose in life, you don’t have to be pushed. Your passion will drive you there.” – Roy T. Bennett (quoted by Ger Graus)

“Don’t you know that people from Wythenshawe don’t fly planes?” – 6-7 year old children to Ger Graus

This heartbreaking response reveals how aspirational lids are placed on children’s jars from an early age, limiting what they believe is possible for themselves.

“We get hung up on schooling more than education…we’re quite happy to alienate the parents. We actually don’t want much to do with the parents.” – Ger Graus

“We need to draw the parents in, we must make them our co-educators…it takes a village to raise a child. Well, we need to remember that the village consists of different components and parents and grandparents are very important but we must engage them.” – Ger Graus

“Give me a confident learner and I’ll bring you the grades.” – Ger Graus

This powerful statement challenges the system’s focus on test results over building confident, independent learners who can thrive in any context.

Key Takeaways

1. Children can only aspire to careers and opportunities they know exist—exposure matters
2. Stereotypes about career choices are set by age 4, yet we don’t discuss futures until age 14
3. Partnerships between schools, businesses, and communities create win-win situations
4. Out-of-school experiences are not luxuries—they’re essential for breaking cycles of disadvantage
5. True education requires engaging parents as co-educators, not alienating them
6. We need futures awareness in primary schools, not just careers education in secondary schools

Join the conversation using #educationonfire and share your stories of expanding children’s horizons.

Chapters:

1. 00:10 – Celebrating Milestones in Education
2. 00:39 – Introduction to the Series: Gare Grouse Gets Gritty
3. 12:50 – Aspirations and Limitations: The Impact of Local Perceptions on Career Choices
4. 17:55 – The Importance of Experience in Learning
5. 21:57 – Engaging Parents in Education
6. 26:21 – Cultural Reflections on Education and Language
7. 32:09 – The Role of Technology in Language Learning
8. 40:09 – Aspirations and Education
9. 45:32 – Generational Aspirations and Education
10. 48:16 – The Importance of Role Models and Social Mobility
11. 55:53 – Intergenerational Learning: Bridging the Gap
12. 01:01:52 – The Concept and Impact of Children’s University
13. 01:09:31 – The Importance of Partnerships in Education
14. 01:14:52 – Understanding the KidZania Experience: Research Insights
15. 01:16:58 – Exploring Stereotypes and Career Choices in Children
16. 01:26:34 – The Legacy of Education and Community Engagement
17. 01:30:47 – The Importance of Learning: Bridging Education and Experience

https://www.gergraus.com

Get the book – Through a Different Lens: Lessons from a Life in Education

🔥 Discover more about Education on Fire, get a FREE pdf of 10 guest resources and be part of our season finale with Ger.

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#EducationOnFire

Show Sponsor – National Association for Primary Education (NAPE)

Their Primary First Journal: https://www.educationonfire.com/nape

In this first episode of a special 10-part series named Ger Graus Gets Gritty, Mark Taylor sits down with Professor Dr. Ger Graus OBE to launch an honest conversation about education and schooling.

Following the release of Ger’s book “Through a Different Lens: Lessons from a Life in Education” this series uses each chapter as a springboard for examining what’s working—and what isn’t—in our education systems.

In this episode Ger shares his personal journey from a difficult childhood in the Netherlands to becoming a passionate advocate for experience-based learning. He reflects on how one transformative teacher changed his trajectory, the crucial differences between primary and secondary education, and why putting children at the centre of learning must be more than just rhetoric.

This episode tackles the benefit of hindsight, the importance of storytelling in education, and why courage is needed to swim against the current of compliance-driven schooling.

Key Quotes

“If you’re a teacher, just realize that 50 years from now someone will say your name… That’s your responsibility, whether to say good things or bad things, nice things or not so nice things. That’s in your gift and that’s in your hands.”

“The minute you touch on an abstract in your lesson, the next thing that should happen is, comma, for example, the two most important words in that lesson. Because what that means is that you exemplify, you tell a story effectively, you take these children in mind and heart, you take them on a short journey.”

“What we have become is accountable to the system and not accountable to the child.”

“I think we need to make education and schooling and the connection between the two much more of a societal dialogue.”

“Children can only aspire to what they know exists.”

Takeaways:

1. The podcast marks a significant milestone, celebrating ten years and 500 episodes, highlighting the journey of Education on Fire.
2. Professor Dr. Ger Graus OBE’s engagement signifies a collaborative effort to address pressing educational issues through meaningful dialogue.
3. The series titled ‘Ger Graus Gets Gritty’ aims to promote positive change in education, focusing on the welfare of children and supportive learning environments.
4. Listeners are encouraged to participate in the conversation and share stories that advocate for the well-being of children in educational settings.
5. The podcast emphasizes the importance of community involvement in education, asserting that collective action is essential for fostering supportive learning experiences.
6. The discussion raises critical questions about the current educational system, advocating for reforms that prioritize children’s needs over economic or political agendas.

Chapters:

1. 00:08 – Celebrating Milestones in Education
2. 01:09 – The Importance of Community in Education
3. 23:31 – The Importance of Storytelling in Education
4. 33:03 – Reflections on Childhood and Education
5. 52:41 – The Need for Courage in Education Reform
6. 01:12:39 – The Importance of Personalization in Education

https://www.gergraus.com

Get the book – Through a Different Lens: Lessons from a Life in Education

🔥 Discover more about Education on Fire, get a FREE pdf of 10 guest resources and be part of our season finale with Ger.

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#EducationOnFire

Show Sponsor – National Association for Primary Education (NAPE)

Their Primary First Journal: https://www.educationonfire.com/nape

Samantha Gourd from Country Space explains the profound benefits and opportunities presented by connecting educational institutions with British farms. The initiative aims to provide immersive, hands-on learning experiences for students, facilitating a deeper understanding of agriculture and sustainability.

By engaging children in activities such as growing vegetables and caring for animals, the program not only enhances educational curricula but also fosters a lifelong respect for nature. The conversation underscores the critical role of primary education in shaping future citizens who appreciate the origins of their food and the importance of environmental stewardship. This dialogue serves as a clarion call for schools to embrace experiential learning beyond the confines of the traditional classroom.

Takeaways:

1. The conversation with Samantha Gourd emphasizes the critical importance of connecting schools with British farms to foster experiential learning opportunities for children.
2. Through immersive workshops, students gain hands-on experience in farming, which cultivates empathy and respect for nature and sustainability.
3. Samantha’s initiative aims to address the pressing challenges faced by British farming, thereby ensuring food security and sustainability for future generations.
4. Early exposure to farming and food production significantly influences children’s values and perceptions about agriculture as they grow into adulthood.
5. Country Space serves as a vital intermediary between educational institutions and farms, facilitating safe and enriching experiences that benefit both parties.
6. The podcast underscores the necessity of integrating real-world experiences into the educational system to inspire future generations about the origins of their food.

Chapters:

1. 00:00 – Connecting Schools to British Farms
2. 05:30 – The Importance of Agricultural Education
3. 09:40 – Understanding Food Education in Schools
4. 11:49 – The Impact of Nature on Well-Being
5. 19:49 – The Impact of Farm Visits on Education
6. 22:34 – Inspiration and Engagement in Education

http://www.country-space.co.uk/

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For all primary schools looking to join workshops on their Kent and Sussex farms – mention Education on Fire to get 10% off

Show Sponsor – National Association for Primary Education (NAPE) https://nape.org.uk/

Find out more about their Primary First Journal: https://www.educationonfire.com/nape

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