GGGG Ep 6 – More than a school – measuring what we value
“More Than a School: Values, Measurement, and What Education Is Really For”
In this episode of the Ger Graus Gets Gritty series, Mark Taylor sits down once again with Professor Dr. Ger Graus OBE to explore one of his most passionate themes — the idea that schools are, and must intentionally become, more than a school. Drawing on his own transformative work leading Education Action Zones in Wythenshawe, South Manchester, Ger makes a compelling case for community-rooted education that puts the whole child first, measures what truly matters, and trusts teachers as the professionals they are.
Inspired by FC Barcelona’s famous motto Més que un Club (“More than a Club”), Ger argues that schools — particularly primary schools embedded in their communities — have always carried responsibilities far beyond academic instruction. But rather than waiting for government to dictate how those responsibilities are fulfilled, he urges schools to seize the agenda, define their own values, and prove their impact on their own terms.
From breakfast clubs to brokering local solutions within a network of 29 schools, from the dangers of league table dishonesty to the transformative power of professional trust. It’s a rallying call to educators, parents, and policymakers alike.
“Schools invariably already are more than a school. But I think we need to become better at it and perhaps we need to become more deliberate at it.”
“If we want to do the ‘more than a school’ bit properly, I think we need to begin with the values of why are we doing this — and what is the impact, and how is that good for our children, our families, our communities?”
Key Takeaways
1. Schools must be deliberately “more than a school.” The challenge is to make that broader role intentional, values-driven, and properly resourced, rather than reactive and underfunded. Schools should stop waiting for government permission and start leading the agenda themselves.
2. Start with the whole child, not the average child. A child who is hungry, cold, or emotionally unsettled cannot learn. Ger champions breakfast clubs, pastoral support, and out-of-school activities not as “nice extras” but as the essential foundation for learning. The 10 A’s identified in Cambridge University research on Children’s University — including attendance, attainment, attitudes, adventure, agency, and advocacy — offer a far richer picture of school impact than narrow inspection frameworks.
3. Measure progress, not just performance. League tables and one-size-fits-all inspection frameworks distort reality and incentivise dishonesty. Ger advocates for progress measures that reflect a school’s specific community context — comparing a school against its own journey rather than against wealthier, more selective institutions. Meaningful accountability means schools defining and measuring their own impact transparently.
4. Professional trust is the missing ingredient. The Wythenshawe Education Action Zone showed what’s possible when teachers and headteachers are genuinely trusted: 29 schools that had never met collectively began collaborating, sharing expertise, and solving problems from within. No external consultants, no top-down directives — just professionals empowered to know their children, their families, and their communities.
5. Respect and trust for teachers must be made visible — by everyone. Ger’s closing call to action is personal and practical. To parents: engage with teachers as the professionals they are, rather than rushing to challenge or undermine them. To government: back up the rhetoric of “trusting teachers” with real autonomy. And to everyone: make trust visible in small, tangible acts — like a handwritten thank-you note after a difficult week. As Ger puts it, “We need to make trust and respect visible. We owe that to our teachers.”
Chapters:
- 00:01 – Introduction to the Series
- 01:13 – More Than a School: Understanding Community Impact
- 29:20 – Building Community Trust in Education
- 32:31 – Transforming Education: A New Approach
- 42:20 – The Impact of Demographic Changes on Education
- 01:02:07 – The Ongoing Journey of Education
https://www.gergraus.com
Get the book – Through a Different Lens: Lessons from a Life in Education
🔥 Discover more about Education on Fire, get a FREE pdf of 10 guest resources and be part of our season finale with Ger.
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#EducationOnFire
Show Sponsor – National Association for Primary Education (NAPE)
Their Primary First Journal: https://www.educationonfire.com/nape
2026 Conference
Keynote : Reading for Pleasure – Dr Roger McDonald
Workshops focusing on National Year of Reading : Writing, TESOL, Oracy, Drama and Story Telling, Poetry
https://educationonfire.com/reading
GGGG Ep 5 – The role we play
In this episode of the Ger Graus Gets Gritty series, Professor Dr. Ger Graus OBE tackles what he calls “the most underestimated aspect of a child’s learning and growing up”—the role adults play as models in young people’s lives. Through personal stories, including his daughter’s early obsession with “Mrs. Poole” her nursery teacher, and insights from his global work with Kidzania, Ger reveals how children unconsciously absorb behaviours, values, and dreams from the adults around them, often in ways we never notice.
This conversation goes beyond the surface of role modeling to question the fundamental structures of modern education. Ger and host Mark Taylor examine why schools still operate on an industrial-era framework—early start times that conflict with adolescent sleep patterns, restricted bathroom access, rushed lunch periods causing “collective indigestion”—and explore what education could look like if we redesigned it around how children actually learn and thrive rather than outdated factory models.
“If we want a world that is respectful and that is kind and considerate and that is inquisitive and curious, then we need to begin to lead by example. That is the most important part of our job description when it comes to our young people.”
Key Takeaways
1. Adults are role models whether they realize it or not. Children absorb everything from the adults around them—teachers, parents, neighbours, and community members. This “copied behavior” is one of the most underestimated aspects of learning, and adults must become conscious of the example they set in values, kindness, curiosity, and respect.
2. Lead by example, not just instruction. Children learn more from what we do than what we say. Schools that demonstrate values through everyday behaviour—greeting people warmly, showing kindness, opening doors—create cultures where children naturally adopt these behaviors, regardless of socioeconomic background.
3. The industrial model of education is outdated and failing students. Current school structures—rigid schedules, minimal breaks, locked toilets, rushed lunches—are remnants of the Industrial Revolution designed to prepare workers for factories. This model no longer serves students’ needs or prepares them for modern life.
4. Schools should be community-owned “more than schools” Educational institutions need to transform into community hubs that serve broader purposes, with flexible hours (perhaps 8am-6pm), adequate meal times, and involvement from employers and community members. Schools should measure and value different outcomes beyond traditional academics.
5. Careers education has failed generations and continues to fail. Adults consistently report that their careers education was either laughable or non-existent. Despite this universal acknowledgment, little has changed. Meaningful change requires creating experiential learning environments where young people can explore possibilities and develop authentic aspirations.
Chapters:
- 00:00 – Introduction to the Series
- 01:18 – The Role We Play in Children’s Lives
- 13:20 – The Role of Teachers as Role Models
- 21:39 – The Importance of Values in Education
- 33:06 – The Role of Role Models in Education
- 42:21 – The Impact of Role Models in Education
- 55:40 – The Influence of Role Models on Youth
- 01:08:30 – Rethinking Education: Beyond Traditional Models
https://www.gergraus.com
Get the book – Through a Different Lens: Lessons from a Life in Education
🔥 Discover more about Education on Fire, get a FREE pdf of 10 guest resources and be part of our season finale with Ger.
🔥 Support the show – Buy me a coffee, Merch and Sponsorship Opportunities
#EducationOnFire
Show Sponsor – National Association for Primary Education (NAPE)
Their Primary First Journal: https://www.educationonfire.com/nape
2026 Conference
Keynote : Reading for Pleasure – Dr Roger McDonald
Workshops focusing on National Year of Reading : Writing, TESOL, Oracy, Drama and Story Telling, Poetry
https://educationonfire.com/reading
GGGG Ep 4 – Navigating Technology in Education
This is the fourth instalment of the “Ger Graus Gets Gritty” series. Based on Chapter 4 of his book Through a Different Lens: Lessons from a Life in Education (published by Routledge), this episode tackles one of the most contentious topics in modern education: technology.
Rather than focusing on the technical aspects of digital tools, Professor Dr Ger Graus OBE reframes the conversation around technology as fundamentally a discussion about human behaviour, courage, and trust. From fountain pens to AI, he traces the historical pattern of moral panic that accompanies each technological advancement, arguing that our concerns reveal more about ourselves than about the technology itself.
The conversation challenges the current discourse around banning mobile phones in schools, advocates for student-centered approaches to technology integration, and explores how young people might actually serve as role models for adults when it comes to digital literacy. We discuss engaging students in creating their own codes of conduct and for recognising that technology’s impact—positive or negative—ultimately comes down to how we choose to use it.
Key Quote
On the Mobile Phone Ban Debate:
“The fact that we are actually talking about banning mobile phones from schools is unbelievable. It is literally turning around to your children and to mine and saying, now, for whatever, six, seven, eight hours a day, we’re going to pretend that they don’t exist.”
Key Takeaways
1. Technology Panic is a Historical Pattern, Not a New Phenomenon
Every technological advancement in education—from fountain pens to ballpoint pens, calculators to the Internet, and now AI—has been met with moral panic about “dumbing down” and declining standards. This reveals that our anxieties are less about the technology itself and more about our discomfort with change and our ability to adapt.
2. The Problem Isn’t the Technology—It’s Human Behavior
Technology is neutral; its impact depends entirely on how humans choose to use it. Rather than banning tools like mobile phones, we need to focus on developing appropriate behaviors, codes of conduct, and digital citizenship. The phone sitting on the desk isn’t harmful—it’s how we interact with it that matters.
3. Students Should Be Partners in Creating Technology Policies
Young people are conspicuously absent from public discussions about technology in schools, despite being the most affected stakeholders. Students are capable of creating sophisticated codes of conduct for technology use—often better than adults can create—and are more effective at self-policing when they’ve been part of the solution.
4. We’re Failing at Technology’s Greatest Promise: Equity and Democratization
The Internet represents humanity’s greatest democratizing invention, yet we’ve failed dismally at addressing equity issues both within countries and globally. The gaps in technology access and digital literacy are growing rather than shrinking, which represents a massive missed opportunity for education and society.
5. Young People Are Our Role Models in Technology, Not the Other Way Around
The traditional model of role modeling—where older generations guide younger ones—is reversed when it comes to technology. Adults need to approach young people with respect and humility, learning from their digital fluency and working collaboratively to understand and navigate the technological landscape together.
Join the conversation using #educationonfire and share your stories.
Chapters:
- 00:01 – Introduction to the Series
- 01:14 – The Impact of Technology on Education
- 11:19 – The Role of Technology in Education
- 15:02 – The Integration of AI in Education
- 19:15 – The Impact of Technology on Education
- 27:10 – The Role of Technology in Education
- 35:02 – The Role of Technology in Education
- 36:40 – Understanding the Role of Technology in Education
- 46:31 – The Role We Play in Technology
https://www.gergraus.com
Get the book – Through a Different Lens: Lessons from a Life in Education
🔥 Discover more about Education on Fire, get a FREE pdf of 10 guest resources and be part of our season finale with Ger.
🔥 Support the show – Buy me a coffee, Merch and Sponsorship Opportunities
#EducationOnFire
Show Sponsor – National Association for Primary Education (NAPE)
Their Primary First Journal: https://www.educationonfire.com/nape
GGGG Ep 3 – Thoughts about schooling and education
In this episode we explore the critical distinction between schooling and education—and why it matters more than ever. Drawing from his book Through a Different Lens: Lessons from a Life in Education, Prof Dr Ger Graus OBE challenges us to rethink how we prepare children not just for exams, but for lifelong learning.
From conversations with Reggio Emilia’s Carla Rinaldi to insights on India’s National Education Plan, this episode examines how different systems approach the fundamental question: is schooling enabling education, or limiting it? Ger and Mark discuss the narrowing of curricula, the disconnect between political agendas and educational best practice, and the untapped potential of museums, libraries, and cultural institutions as essential learning partners.
With passionate calls for cross-party consensus on children’s wellbeing and a reimagining of what it means to truly educate rather than simply school, this conversation is a rallying cry for parents, educators, and policymakers to refocus on what children actually need to thrive in the modern world—not the industrial revolution.
Key Quotes
“The better schooled you are, the better educated you can be if you wish to be.”
“We don’t talk about wellbeing, we talk about not wellbeing. The entire conversation is never about, oh my God, I feel so great. The entire conversation is, I feel so lousy.”
“If you are going to study Shakespeare with children and young people…… they should either get the chance to see the play or to be in it…… you could not be in an outstanding school if you don’t adhere to those things.”
“The bar in England in that sense is set unbelievably low. Please do not look to England as an example of best practice.”
Key Takeaways
- Schooling ≠ Education – Schooling is a 10-15 year period within a lifetime of education (ages 0-99). In an ideal system, schooling should be an enabler that equips people to become lifelong learners, not just to pass exams or accumulate credentials.
- The Dutch Advantage – The Dutch language uses the same word for teaching and learning, conceptually removing the artificial separation. This linguistic integration reflects a more holistic approach where teaching and learning are seen as complementary parts of the same process.
- Cultural Institutions Are Underutilized – Museums, libraries, galleries, theatres, and music venues are crying out for audiences while schools struggle within narrow curricula. There’s enormous untapped potential in creating systematic partnerships between schools and these cultural institutions to enrich both education and teaching.
- We Need Cross-Party Consensus – Educational policy suffers from constant reinvention with each new government. Creating a consensus on core priorities (wellbeing, music, physical education, etc.) that transcends political cycles would provide stability and allow genuine progress rather than perpetual wheel-reinventing.
- Shift from “Not Wellbeing” to “Wellbeing” – Current conversations focus on problems (obesity, knife crime, mental health issues) rather than positive wellbeing. Education policy should reframe the dialogue to proactively build wellbeing through entitlements like music, arts, and cultural participation—things that make us feel good, not just prevent us from feeling bad.
Join the conversation using #educationonfire and share your stories.
Chapters:
- 00:10 – Celebrating Milestones
- 03:29 – The Distinction Between Schooling and Education
- 10:31 – The Role of Parents in Education
- 20:01 – Rethinking Education: The Role of Parents in Homework
- 27:05 – The Impact of Education on Society
- 32:55 – The Role of Schools in Education and Parenting
- 40:08 – Rethinking Education: Community and Personalization
- 41:59 – The Role of Experience in Knowledge Acquisition
- 54:39 – The Role of Communities and Schools in Student Well-being
- 59:32 – The Need for a Collective Movement in Education
- 01:06:10 – The Future of Education and Learning
https://www.gergraus.com
Get the book – Through a Different Lens: Lessons from a Life in Education
🔥 Discover more about Education on Fire, get a FREE pdf of 10 guest resources and be part of our season finale with Ger.
🔥 Support the show – Buy me a coffee, Merch and Sponsorship Opportunities
#EducationOnFire
Show Sponsor – National Association for Primary Education (NAPE)
Their Primary First Journal: https://www.educationonfire.com/nape
GGGG Ep 2 – Children can only aspire to what they know exists
This episode explores how children’s aspirations are fundamentally shaped by their experiences and what they’re exposed to. Drawing from Prof Dr Ger Graus’s groundbreaking work with the Wythenshawe Education Action Zone and Manchester Airport, they unpack the reality that children from disadvantaged backgrounds often can’t dream of careers they’ve never seen.
The conversation moves from airports to universities, examining how partnership between education and industry can transform lives. Ger shares compelling research from KidZania revealing that stereotypes are set by age 4, and discusses the Children’s University model that brought families into higher education spaces for the first time.
Ger challenges listeners to think beyond traditional schooling, emphasizing the critical importance of out-of-school experiences, parental engagement, and creating purposeful learning that helps young people discover why education matters—not just what they must learn.
Key Quotes
“If you have a strong purpose in life, you don’t have to be pushed. Your passion will drive you there.” – Roy T. Bennett (quoted by Ger Graus)
“Don’t you know that people from Wythenshawe don’t fly planes?” – 6-7 year old children to Ger Graus
This heartbreaking response reveals how aspirational lids are placed on children’s jars from an early age, limiting what they believe is possible for themselves.
“We get hung up on schooling more than education…we’re quite happy to alienate the parents. We actually don’t want much to do with the parents.” – Ger Graus
“We need to draw the parents in, we must make them our co-educators…it takes a village to raise a child. Well, we need to remember that the village consists of different components and parents and grandparents are very important but we must engage them.” – Ger Graus
“Give me a confident learner and I’ll bring you the grades.” – Ger Graus
This powerful statement challenges the system’s focus on test results over building confident, independent learners who can thrive in any context.
Key Takeaways
- Children can only aspire to careers and opportunities they know exist—exposure matters
- Stereotypes about career choices are set by age 4, yet we don’t discuss futures until age 14
- Partnerships between schools, businesses, and communities create win-win situations
- Out-of-school experiences are not luxuries—they’re essential for breaking cycles of disadvantage
- True education requires engaging parents as co-educators, not alienating them
- We need futures awareness in primary schools, not just careers education in secondary schools
Join the conversation using #educationonfire and share your stories of expanding children’s horizons.
Chapters:
- 00:10 – Celebrating Milestones in Education
- 00:39 – Introduction to the Series: Gare Grouse Gets Gritty
- 12:50 – Aspirations and Limitations: The Impact of Local Perceptions on Career Choices
- 17:55 – The Importance of Experience in Learning
- 21:57 – Engaging Parents in Education
- 26:21 – Cultural Reflections on Education and Language
- 32:09 – The Role of Technology in Language Learning
- 40:09 – Aspirations and Education
- 45:32 – Generational Aspirations and Education
- 48:16 – The Importance of Role Models and Social Mobility
- 55:53 – Intergenerational Learning: Bridging the Gap
- 01:01:52 – The Concept and Impact of Children’s University
- 01:09:31 – The Importance of Partnerships in Education
- 01:14:52 – Understanding the KidZania Experience: Research Insights
- 01:16:58 – Exploring Stereotypes and Career Choices in Children
- 01:26:34 – The Legacy of Education and Community Engagement
- 01:30:47 – The Importance of Learning: Bridging Education and Experience
https://www.gergraus.com
Get the book – Through a Different Lens: Lessons from a Life in Education
🔥 Discover more about Education on Fire, get a FREE pdf of 10 guest resources and be part of our season finale with Ger.
🔥 Support the show – Buy me a coffee, Merch and Sponsorship Opportunities
#EducationOnFire
Show Sponsor – National Association for Primary Education (NAPE)
Their Primary First Journal: https://www.educationonfire.com/nape