Empowering Students Through Communication Skills

Speaker A 00:00:00

If you can't communicate with people, you're not going to be successful and you're going to have a very difficult time in both your personal and professional lives.

Speaker A 00:00:08

I feel like we're failing our kids, we're failing our students, we're failing that generation.

Speaker A 00:00:12

I really don't care what the grades are.

Speaker A 00:00:14

I'm more interested in what people are learning.

Speaker A 00:00:16

Right.

Speaker A 00:00:17

And if you're learning something and it translates into grades, that's great.

Speaker A 00:00:21

If you're learning something and it doesn't translate into grades, that's also great because, you know, you're actually learning and you're developing.

Speaker A 00:00:30

I think where we as educators, as parents, as community members, as business leaders can really affect some change is helping students work on their, on their self esteem, helping students get out of their own heads and say, I really, truly want to hear what you think.

Speaker A 00:00:48

And he came in and he was pretty upset with us as a class because we did so bad.

Speaker A 00:00:54

And essentially what he told the class was he can only do so much and that if we as students didn't start taking some ownership and responsibility for our own education, it didn't really matter what he did.

Speaker B 00:01:09

Hello.

Speaker B 00:01:10

That was Tim Newman, and he has over two decades of experience as a college professor, a communication coach, and podcast host.

Speaker B 00:01:17

Now he's dedicated his career to helping people find their voice and use it powerfully.

Speaker B 00:01:21

And I think there are so many ways that this is important for people and so many ways that Tim takes us through how it can help you and the people that you're working for.

Speaker B 00:01:31

Hello, my name is Mark Taylor and welcome to the Education on Far podcast, the place for creative and inspiring learning from around the world.

Speaker B 00:01:45

Listen to teachers, parents and mentors share how they are supporting children to live their best, authentic life and are proving to be a guiding light to us all.

Speaker B 00:01:53

Hello.

Speaker B 00:01:54

Hi, Tim.

Speaker B 00:01:54

Thank you so much for joining us here on the Education on Far podcast.

Speaker B 00:01:58

One of the things that I certainly know as a parent and certainly some of the things I think about and hear in schools is just that talking, speaking, presenting yourself, is something which is incredibly important and something which children, and certainly young people these days where they're very sort of mobile, social, kind of confident, not so much when they have to speak to people direct, even if it's just in a conversation, let alone in a kind of a formal setting.

Speaker B 00:02:21

So I think this conversation today and the way you're able to help people, people is going to be really, really important.

Speaker B 00:02:27

Yeah.

Speaker B 00:02:27

So thanks so much for being on the show.

Speaker A 00:02:29

Well, Mark, thanks for giving Me the opportunity to speak with the educational fire community.

Speaker A 00:02:34

You nailed it.

Speaker A 00:02:34

If you can't communicate with people, you're not going to be successful and you're going to have a very difficult time in both your personal and professional lives.

Speaker B 00:02:42

So take us into this journey for you.

Speaker B 00:02:44

I know you've got experience within education, but what was sort of the specific sort of passion about this kind of being able to communicate that kind of took you into what you're doing now?

Speaker A 00:02:53

Well, it's, it's been kind of a long road and you know, there's a couple of periods of time in my life where I realized how important communication was.

Speaker A 00:03:04

And so, you know, as I get into the story, let me ask you, you know, what's the most nervous you've ever seen somebody before they've had to talk to people?

Speaker B 00:03:15

Oh, well, almost unable to talk to anybody themselves within it, you know, literally sort of shaking, unable to move.

Speaker B 00:03:22

And, and that's that sort of souls destroying as well when you sort of hear sort of see someone like that, because there's very little you can do often in the short amount of time that you know they're about to go and do something or present.

Speaker A 00:03:33

Why threw up in front of everybody.

Speaker A 00:03:37

Very first time that I was, you know, really tasked with talking in front of a group of people outside of a, you know, a real normal conversation.

Speaker A 00:03:48

So this goes back to know the, the early 90s when I was in college and you know, everybody has to take a, you know, public speaking communications type course and, and I'm one of the best in the world at getting out of things I don't want to do.

Speaker A 00:04:02

And so I dropped the course.

Speaker A 00:04:03

And then, you know, fast forward to my senior year.

Speaker A 00:04:06

My advisor said, tim, if you don't take the class, you're not going to graduate.

Speaker A 00:04:10

And so I ended up taking it.

Speaker A 00:04:12

And you know, this is back before we, I mean, we had computers, but it's not like it is today.

Speaker A 00:04:16

We didn't have PowerPoint.

Speaker A 00:04:19

We had, I had an overhead projector with, you know, transparency slides that you would actually write on.

Speaker A 00:04:24

And so I get up in front of the class lectern sitting on top of the desk and I put my, my notes on it and I get ready to start talking and I threw up right in front of the class.

Speaker A 00:04:33

And you know, it was really, at that point, I have no idea why I was so nervous.

Speaker A 00:04:39

Up to that point in my life, I'd been an athlete, I've been military.

Speaker A 00:04:42

You know, I was leading people, you know, talking in front of people and doing those types of things, but that type of environment, for whatever reason, it.

Speaker A 00:04:51

The nervousness just kind of overwhelmed me.

Speaker A 00:04:53

And I knew at that point, if I wanted to.

Speaker A 00:04:55

To be.

Speaker A 00:04:57

To get anywhere, I had to get over it.

Speaker A 00:04:59

So I ended up becoming an educator.

Speaker A 00:05:01

And so that's what we kind of did, right?

Speaker A 00:05:03

You have to get up in front of people and talk and share information and.

Speaker A 00:05:06

And teach people.

Speaker A 00:05:08

And as.

Speaker A 00:05:09

As my career kind of went on, especially when Covid hit, it really hit me that that young people are really, really struggling with communication and we have to do something about it, because I found myself more talking about and teaching communication skills than teaching the content knowledge for the area of expertise.

Speaker A 00:05:31

And that's a real problem because not only are they can't communicate, they're not getting the content knowledge.

Speaker A 00:05:37

And so they're going to go out, out in the world of work and not be prepared.

Speaker A 00:05:41

And I couldn't.

Speaker A 00:05:42

As I couldn't do that.

Speaker A 00:05:44

I felt horrible.

Speaker A 00:05:45

I feel like we're failing our kids, we're failing our students, we're failing that generation.

Speaker A 00:05:51

And that's kind of how I've moved into the space and really started working and looking at things and how we can be better at teaching these skills to our younger generations.

Speaker B 00:06:04

And I find that fascinating because often on the podcast, I've chatted to people who talk in exactly the same way.

Speaker B 00:06:09

How can we teach people the subject matter or what you have to do as part of the curriculum?

Speaker B 00:06:15

If, for example, they're hungry, they're not getting enough food, or they're looking after somebody at home, all of those things, which seems sort of obvious, is a kind of a real basic need.

Speaker B 00:06:24

But I think what we're talking about today is just as basic and just as important.

Speaker B 00:06:29

But it's not so obvious in that way, because like you say, until you get put in.

Speaker B 00:06:33

In that place where you have to do it and you suddenly feel what that's about, you don't need to kind of put your head above the parapet too much.

Speaker B 00:06:40

And I think really that benefit and knowing what it can do and even, you know, young people understanding what that's going to do and benefit you later in life is such a key asset.

Speaker B 00:06:51

Yeah.

Speaker A 00:06:52

And you talk about, you know, not sticking your head up and kind of firing on the radar.

Speaker A 00:06:58

If you're in classroom and students have questions, they're petrified to ask a question, they're petrified to say, I don't understand this, or can you, excuse me, can you explain this more?

Speaker A 00:07:09

Or, you know, this Is what I think about that.

Speaker A 00:07:11

This topic or why don't we do this or whatever it is, they keep that thought in their head and they, they never push that forward.

Speaker A 00:07:19

And.

Speaker A 00:07:19

But what that does to the advancement of the topic or the education or that individual student being able to think something through and maybe either come to resolution, change the way they're thinking, or validate what they're thinking, whatever it is, all of that has been now suppressed.

Speaker B 00:07:41

And what is it that you think is that reason for them not wanting to ask?

Speaker B 00:07:47

I mean, my feeling is that within the system, you're expected to get great grades.

Speaker B 00:07:52

You're suspected to know all these things, and as soon as you kind of feel slightly nervous about that, you don't want to let anyone know that's different.

Speaker B 00:07:58

But I mean, is that your experience as well?

Speaker A 00:08:00

Well, you know, I think there's a couple of things.

Speaker A 00:08:02

And you know, you, you, you mentioned one of it is get great grades.

Speaker A 00:08:07

And I have always approached it very, very differently.

Speaker A 00:08:10

I really don't care what the grades are.

Speaker A 00:08:12

I'm more interested in what people are learning.

Speaker A 00:08:14

Right.

Speaker A 00:08:15

And if you're learning something and it translates into grades, that's great.

Speaker A 00:08:19

If you're learning something and it doesn't translate into grades, that's also great because, you know, you're actually learning and you're, and you're developing.

Speaker A 00:08:29

It's that.

Speaker A 00:08:30

That to me is, is one of the biggest things that we've done to our education system.

Speaker A 00:08:36

At least here in the United States, we're so focused on grades.

Speaker A 00:08:38

We're so focused on test scores.

Speaker A 00:08:40

There's very, very little talk about what kids are learning.

Speaker A 00:08:43

So that's first, second piece is a lot of times students are so worried about what other people are thinking about them.

Speaker A 00:08:53

They don't want to sound stupid.

Speaker A 00:08:54

They don't want to sound like they're making a mistake.

Speaker A 00:08:58

They don't want to say the wrong thing.

Speaker A 00:09:01

That even all the way to the other end, they don't want to be part of the person that always asks questions or knows everything.

Speaker A 00:09:09

So they're, they're running that gamut and it's all this internal talk that they have to themselves, you know, and, and as a student, I get it.

Speaker A 00:09:18

There are, there is some, some of those, those comments, and that's a different issue that needs to be addressed.

Speaker A 00:09:24

But from the student perspective, we have to get to give the students the empowerment to say, you know what?

Speaker A 00:09:33

I'm not going to worry about what you say.

Speaker A 00:09:34

I'm not going to worry about what you Say, I'm going to worry about what I think and sharing my thoughts and opinions and moving forward like that.

Speaker A 00:09:41

Because what I would always tell my students is I'm looking for leaders.

Speaker A 00:09:45

I'm looking for people who are willing to step up and say, this is what I think.

Speaker A 00:09:48

Or Dr.

Speaker A 00:09:49

Newman, I don't agree with what you're saying over here and this is why.

Speaker A 00:09:54

And then we can really get into some serious discussions and really get into some, some real learning and discourse and grow the students way of communicating so they learn how to have an actual professional conversation without all the yelling, screaming, bickering back and forth.

Speaker A 00:10:18

Because there's so much to it.

Speaker B 00:10:20

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker B 00:10:21

And I think something you said there, I'm not sure I'd quite understood before.

Speaker B 00:10:26

In the same way is that sort of the two sides of the coin of there's the system and the way of young people understanding, oh, the grades are important, the way I come across in school is important, and the expectations are, you know, X, Y and Z, whatever that happens to be.

Speaker B 00:10:42

And of course, there's also that kind of biology, being a young person really worrying about what other people think in the kind of the growing up side of it as well.

Speaker B 00:10:51

And so there's.

Speaker B 00:10:51

There's two elements which kind of like you say, the conversations, the understanding of how you develop, how you're growing up, how, you know, getting across that great point that you said about.

Speaker B 00:11:01

It's about the learning.

Speaker B 00:11:02

It's about how you're progressing, how you're developing, as opposed to the way the system is in the grades.

Speaker B 00:11:08

But unless they hear that from enough people and that scene is set, it's very hard to kind of, to make that judgment yourself, like, say, especially when you're a young adult who worried about what's going on in life.

Speaker A 00:11:18

Exactly.

Speaker A 00:11:19

And that's the dichotomy here.

Speaker A 00:11:20

Right.

Speaker A 00:11:21

Because how many people are actually talking about, how many educators are actually talking about, you know, as educators, you know, we, we talk about a bunch of things.

Speaker A 00:11:29

We talk about outcomes assessment, we talk about, you know, curriculum development design.

Speaker A 00:11:35

And outcomes assessment is really supposed to measure student learning, but it isn't really.

Speaker A 00:11:41

There's, you know, there's so many.

Speaker A 00:11:43

I think there's very few people who are doing outcomes assessment really well in understanding it and developing curriculum and assessments that do that.

Speaker A 00:11:52

And don't put me in that category because I don't know that I'm very good at it either.

Speaker A 00:11:58

Right.

Speaker A 00:11:58

But I think because the focus is so much on grades and test scores at the lower levels you know, it really impedes the growth of the students.

Speaker A 00:12:09

But I think where we as educators, as parents, as community members, as business leaders can really affect some change is helping students work on their self esteem, helping students get out of their own heads and say, I really truly want to hear what you think.

Speaker A 00:12:26

I really truly want you to be able to express yourselves as we move forward out of education and into, into the world of work.

Speaker A 00:12:36

When you get hired for a position, understand that you're hired for a reason.

Speaker A 00:12:43

Because of your knowledge, because of your skills, because of your abilities.

Speaker A 00:12:46

They're not hiring you to, to make fun of you.

Speaker A 00:12:49

They're not hiring you to criticize what you're doing.

Speaker A 00:12:53

They're hired.

Speaker A 00:12:53

They hired you because you bring a skill set.

Speaker A 00:12:55

We want you to use that skill set.

Speaker A 00:12:59

You know, and that to me is, you know, as I talk to young people, young people, it's so hard to, for them to understand it until you do it over and over and over again.

Speaker B 00:13:10

Yeah.

Speaker B 00:13:11

And you've got to experience these things, haven't you, to fully appreciate it and step in.

Speaker B 00:13:14

And I think that's a really great way of putting it.

Speaker B 00:13:17

That sense of, you know, you're you, we want you in the workplace as an integral, valued part of the thing.

Speaker B 00:13:23

And I guess the first point within a class or within a school environment is that, you know, we, we want you to be here to thrive.

Speaker B 00:13:29

We want your impact, we want your knowledge, we want your enthusiasm, we want everything that you can bring to the party to make this an experience for everybody to learn.

Speaker B 00:13:37

And like I said, I don't actually quite ever remember that happening while I was at school, let alone what the current system is like.

Speaker A 00:13:43

Yeah.

Speaker A 00:13:44

And think about, you know, when you were, when you were in school, I was in school.

Speaker A 00:13:50

Some of the same things are going on.

Speaker A 00:13:51

Right.

Speaker A 00:13:52

Some of the same thought process processes are going on, some of the same interpersonal interactions between students is going on, some of the same interactions, interpersonal interactions between students and teachers and students and parents and those.

Speaker A 00:14:07

Some of that stuff has never changed.

Speaker A 00:14:09

But the one thing that has changed is the whole idea of social media and that social pressure of, of worrying about what other people think.

Speaker A 00:14:19

And that's another level that is very difficult to overcome because I think we can overcome the regular social pressures to a certain extent, but the social pressures from social media have a complete another level that is very, very difficult to overcome.

Speaker B 00:14:43

Yeah, I think that's true.

Speaker B 00:14:44

And I think a big part of that is the fact that it's 24, 7, isn't it because like I say, even if you're struggling at school, you go home, you've got the family, you've got people that you hang out with that you like, and suddenly becomes a little bit more relaxed and positive with social media just there with you all the time.

Speaker B 00:14:58

Unless you're so disciplined, which is so hard when you're younger, then, like, so you can't even escape for that.

Speaker B 00:15:03

You can understand why so many people struggle.

Speaker A 00:15:05

Yes.

Speaker A 00:15:06

So, you know, go back to 2010, 2011, somewhere in that time frame when, when Twitter came out.

Speaker A 00:15:13

Now, now it's X.

Speaker A 00:15:15

You know, I went to my oldest daughter at the time and I said, you're.

Speaker A 00:15:19

Tell me about Twitter.

Speaker A 00:15:21

And she looked at me, she said, dad, you don't want to know.

Speaker A 00:15:23

You don't want any part of that.

Speaker A 00:15:24

You won't know anything about it.

Speaker A 00:15:26

And to me, that was a sign.

Speaker A 00:15:27

I better figure it out, I better learn it.

Speaker A 00:15:29

Because it's, it's the, the students are using it, the younger generations is using it, and I need to get a handle on it.

Speaker A 00:15:41

And that, that's also part of the, part of the issue as, as the older generations, I don't think that we do a good job of truly trying to relate to the younger generations and understand where they're coming from and meeting them on that level.

Speaker A 00:15:59

This, again, this, I think, is a little bit deeper conversation.

Speaker A 00:16:02

If, if my parents and my grandparents didn't really care where I was coming from, you were going to fall in line and you were gonna, you were gonna do this and you were gonna do that.

Speaker A 00:16:11

It doesn't work like that anymore.

Speaker A 00:16:13

And if, if, if you want to truly affect change, you have to truly understand and make an effort to understand where, where the younger generations are coming from.

Speaker A 00:16:22

I'm not saying that we, we trade our values or any of those types of things, but you have to be able to understand their language, you have to understand where they're coming from, and you have to make some of those efforts.

Speaker A 00:16:32

Otherwise, you know, they're not going to fall in line.

Speaker A 00:16:35

Like, like we fell in line.

Speaker B 00:16:37

And I think for me, I've certainly realized that I find it really hard to relate to that.

Speaker B 00:16:43

They don't know any different, you know, because I can say, I know about social media.

Speaker B 00:16:46

I'm used to being online, but I knew, like yourself, you know, pre Internet, pre anything related to that.

Speaker B 00:16:53

For a child that's only ever known social media, that's grown up in this is a.

Speaker B 00:16:57

Is, is a world which is just is then.

Speaker A 00:17:00

Right.

Speaker B 00:17:01

Like I say, it's hard to sort of put yourself in their position because you can't relate to that just being the only world that you know.

Speaker A 00:17:08

Exactly.

Speaker A 00:17:09

It's, and it's, and you look back at, you know, every year at the end of the year, you know, they, they, they pick a year and say, go back 30 years and this is what it was.

Speaker A 00:17:18

And I remember all those things and think about this.

Speaker A 00:17:21

You know, I'm a recovering college professor now, so last semester was my last semester.

Speaker A 00:17:27

And right around Covid time, what I realized was that the majority of my students, none of them were alive when 2011 hit for us.

Speaker A 00:17:40

That's, that to me was eye opening.

Speaker A 00:17:41

That to me was a wake up call that, okay, Tim, you're old now.

Speaker A 00:17:47

I've been teaching longer than these people have been alive.

Speaker A 00:17:50

And they don't understand really how we've gotten here because they don't have the ability to, to have lived some of those things.

Speaker A 00:17:57

That's, and that's part of our responsibility.

Speaker A 00:18:00

Social media is one of those things.

Speaker B 00:18:02

Yeah.

Speaker B 00:18:03

And it's so different than when talking to my grandparents, you know, sort of pre television, pre washing machine, pre all that sort of stuff.

Speaker A 00:18:10

Exactly.

Speaker B 00:18:11

And it's like, you know, television obviously was a big thing, but you know, the kind of, the appliances and that kind of thing has made a big difference in our life.

Speaker B 00:18:17

But not like saying that kind of emotional impact, which is one of the things that obviously social media has done.

Speaker B 00:18:22

But I say just remembering all that and I imagine them laughing at us.

Speaker B 00:18:26

That kind of what you used to do this before that button.

Speaker B 00:18:29

How did you, how did you live?

Speaker B 00:18:30

How did you know what to do with yourself?

Speaker A 00:18:33

How did you make plans to go out on the weekend?

Speaker A 00:18:35

Well, it was very, very different.

Speaker A 00:18:37

Very differently.

Speaker B 00:18:39

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker B 00:18:40

So let's, let's sort of jump forward in terms of you have people that you want to support, like you say the public speaking, they've been able to be confident in yourself is important.

Speaker B 00:18:50

So what is it that you've put together?

Speaker B 00:18:52

How does your program work?

Speaker B 00:18:53

What are those skills that like you say you take someone who may be, wants to be able to do this, but they're taking that first initial steps and how you're then supporting them.

Speaker A 00:19:02

Well, I, I think part of it is understanding how to go about communicating.

Speaker A 00:19:07

And you know, again we, we paralyze ourselves and I'm a systems person, you know, if, if you, if there's a way to do a step by step system that works, use it until you get comfortable and then until it Becomes almost natural and becomes habit.

Speaker A 00:19:27

And you know, anytime that we're going to communicate with somebody, talk to somebody even.

Speaker A 00:19:31

So when I, when I think about communication, it's, it's all kinds of different things.

Speaker A 00:19:35

It's, it's the verbal, it's the non verbal, it's the body language, it's the written, it's the listening.

Speaker A 00:19:40

There's so many things that go into communication that we, that we never really talk about and it's overwhelming.

Speaker A 00:19:48

And so if we give them a system, a starting point, this is where you always start.

Speaker A 00:19:55

This is the next step.

Speaker A 00:19:56

This is the next step, this is the next step.

Speaker A 00:19:58

And you start to put that in into practice, that's when you're going to start feeling comfortable.

Speaker A 00:20:02

That's when you're going to become a better overall communicator so you have a way to actually move forward.

Speaker A 00:20:11

When I first started teaching, I would tell my students, quit saying.

Speaker A 00:20:16

I said just stop saying it, just stop saying it.

Speaker A 00:20:18

Just stop saying it.

Speaker A 00:20:20

And one time a student came and she said to me, will you tell us to stop saying it but you're not telling us how, what we can do.

Speaker A 00:20:28

And I said, you know what?

Speaker A 00:20:29

You got me.

Speaker A 00:20:30

You're absolutely right.

Speaker A 00:20:32

And again, that also shows that we as educators can learn if students are communicating with us as well.

Speaker A 00:20:39

And so that was also some of part of this planning process.

Speaker A 00:20:43

And the first thing that we always have to do when we're communicating is know who our audience is, know who we're talking to, know who, who we're listening to, know who we're writing to.

Speaker A 00:20:54

All those, all those things are really important.

Speaker A 00:20:57

So do the research on your audience.

Speaker A 00:21:01

What is it you know about them and you know what are.

Speaker A 00:21:06

If you know who they are, then you can start to build the second step, which is, is your content.

Speaker A 00:21:11

Then you can start building the third step, which is your expectations or expectations of the communication session.

Speaker A 00:21:18

And then the last step is putting it all together.

Speaker A 00:21:24

I call it the script, but it's not necessarily a script, but it's putting the story together using the proper language so that they can understand and get the points that you want to get them to get to get across to that.

Speaker B 00:21:40

I think for me what just struck me then is, I mean, I'm a musician by trade, so there's.

Speaker B 00:21:45

The performing element is kind of at the heart of who I am and what I do.

Speaker B 00:21:49

Hence the reason I think I love the podcast, to get the live stream, all that kind of thing.

Speaker B 00:21:52

But as an educator going into, I teach in a Couple of schools where I teach drums and percussion, which is my instrument.

Speaker A 00:21:58

Can I stop you there for a second?

Speaker A 00:22:00

Of course.

Speaker A 00:22:03

I love drums.

Speaker A 00:22:05

You know, when I go to concerts, everybody's looking at the guitar player, the singer, I watch the drummer.

Speaker A 00:22:11

I, I think the, the drummers are, I mean seriously, I think the drummers are, are the best.

Speaker A 00:22:16

You know, they, it, it fascinates me how good drummers are.

Speaker A 00:22:24

I mean they're, it's anyway different topic but I want to let you know that to me is drumming is.

Speaker A 00:22:31

That's, that's what I watch.

Speaker B 00:22:33

Oh, brilliant.

Speaker B 00:22:33

Well, I appreciate that.

Speaker B 00:22:36

And it, it is great fun and yeah, something obviously that I love doing and.

Speaker B 00:22:41

But from, yeah, from my teaching experience, I was just sort of thinking about each of those elements that you said.

Speaker B 00:22:45

I.

Speaker B 00:22:47

Because I teach across a number of year groups, it's exactly that.

Speaker B 00:22:51

Who is, who is the audience?

Speaker B 00:22:53

It's like, you know, teaching someone who's only 7 or 8 is different than teaching someone who's 18.

Speaker B 00:22:57

You know, the language that you're using, the way you're going about it, like say the outcomes and the expectations are very different because you've got developmental stages and height and all that kind of thing as well.

Speaker B 00:23:07

And then also you know what they're going to get out of it at the end.

Speaker B 00:23:11

You know, what might be a sort of a, a very short piece which you're going to do when you're younger.

Speaker B 00:23:16

It's going to be different than a full on recital if you're kind of like you say, sort of at the end of, end of school, going into college, that kind of thing.

Speaker B 00:23:22

But what I really liked about that is in terms of the way you've talked about the framework is the fact that I do this, the framework, the same for everybody.

Speaker B 00:23:30

And I try and make them understand that it's.

Speaker B 00:23:33

We're learning something new.

Speaker B 00:23:34

This is going to feel a little bit weird.

Speaker B 00:23:36

We're going to be a bit out of our comfort zone.

Speaker B 00:23:38

Let's work out how we can do it and obviously give them the skills and the support that they need to do that.

Speaker B 00:23:43

And then you start to get a bit better at it and then you feel a bit more confident and then you have to repeat it because it's that muscle memory that starts to kick in and then you can do it and then you, then you can do it almost without thinking and then you can perform it and you think, yes, I've, I've sussed this whole thing about being a musician.

Speaker B 00:23:57

And then we start another piece and then you go back and do the same process again because the.

Speaker B 00:24:02

What you're trying to do is a little bit harder, it's more developed, there's more understanding that you need.

Speaker B 00:24:07

But I think because over the years, they start to understand the process is the same.

Speaker B 00:24:10

And I explain that's exactly the same process.

Speaker B 00:24:12

For me.

Speaker B 00:24:13

I still get music given to me and I'm like, holy, there's a lot of notes in here.

Speaker B 00:24:17

Let's go through that process.

Speaker B 00:24:18

But, like, say, that framework, that understanding, Understanding that process means that you then have the skill set that when I'm not there to teach you, you can go away and learn this thing.

Speaker B 00:24:26

And I would imagine that probably works exactly the same for you.

Speaker A 00:24:30

Absolutely.

Speaker A 00:24:30

And.

Speaker A 00:24:31

And again, the key.

Speaker A 00:24:32

The key piece to that is, is the practice, because it's not easy.

Speaker A 00:24:38

It's not easy getting better.

Speaker A 00:24:40

And you have to practice it.

Speaker A 00:24:41

If, I mean, if.

Speaker A 00:24:43

If, you know, take your example of doing a music piece and you're getting ready to go out and perform it, you're not going to take a lesson from you go home three days later, three days later, think that you're going to go out in front of a group of people and be able to perform that the way it should be performed.

Speaker A 00:25:01

It's practice.

Speaker A 00:25:01

No, no sport team goes into any type of game, event, what have you, without having a game plan and practicing that game plan.

Speaker A 00:25:11

And communication is really no different.

Speaker B 00:25:14

And do you think when they start to understand that and they sort of dispel all that myth?

Speaker B 00:25:20

Because I guess so much of what we talk about and certainly is true for music as well, it's kind of a bit ethereal.

Speaker B 00:25:25

It's, you know, kind of getting involved in the music, listening, the fact you're doing so many different skills at the same time.

Speaker B 00:25:31

But when you've broken it down, like you said, and when you realize if you're just thinking about this and you're doing this and you're doing this, the rest of it sort of comes and like, say it develops over time in the same ways.

Speaker B 00:25:43

And I like those analogies and the sports analogies always work.

Speaker B 00:25:46

It's that kind of.

Speaker B 00:25:47

So you're playing football.

Speaker B 00:25:48

Football or soccer here in the uk, you know, what do you practice?

Speaker B 00:25:52

Do you do stuff with the whole team?

Speaker B 00:25:53

How does that differ?

Speaker B 00:25:54

When it's in a match, who's the coach supporting?

Speaker B 00:25:57

How are they trying to help you to do these things?

Speaker B 00:25:59

Are you better this season than you were last season?

Speaker B 00:26:01

And it's never about the one thing.

Speaker B 00:26:03

It's about a combination of all those things.

Speaker B 00:26:05

And as you mature and you evolve, you get better.

Speaker B 00:26:08

And it's, it's that journey which is the most important thing.

Speaker B 00:26:11

Rather than, I wasn't a public speaker or I couldn't stand up in front of someone, and now I can.

Speaker B 00:26:15

It's that it was better this time than last time, and I've got better skill sets this time than last time.

Speaker B 00:26:20

And I think then you start to feel confident in yourself that it's all just about how you're evolving and how you're going to develop.

Speaker A 00:26:26

Absolutely.

Speaker A 00:26:27

You nailed it.

Speaker A 00:26:28

Absolutely.

Speaker B 00:26:30

So in terms of your experience of doing that, like you say, if you're going to throw up the first time that you were doing it without that framework in place, because you, you know, you only just sort of understanding that how did you sort of go about wanting to improve?

Speaker B 00:26:45

You sort of said about becoming a teacher and doing that kind of thing.

Speaker B 00:26:48

Was, was there sort of, sort of that sort of slope of sort of getting to that point where you really felt like that was something that you were going to then feel comfortable with, to be able to, to then support people?

Speaker B 00:26:58

Well.

Speaker A 00:27:00

Again, again, it's, it's a process.

Speaker A 00:27:03

It's a, you know, just like anything else.

Speaker A 00:27:07

Growing up, I always wanted to be a teacher.

Speaker A 00:27:09

That was, I mean, that's just what I always wanted to do.

Speaker A 00:27:13

And you know, when, when I got my first teaching job, I had no teaching education, never taught how to teach.

Speaker A 00:27:21

And knowing that I had this anxiety of staying up in front of people again with no education, with no training whatsoever, I just poured myself into repetition and practice and research and repetition and practice and research and over and over and over again.

Speaker A 00:27:45

You know, I always felt comfortable with content that I was teaching, but the presentation of it, and this goes to our educational system.

Speaker A 00:27:55

You know, the very first year I was a teacher, I would go to our principal, assistant principal, and invite them into my classroom.

Speaker A 00:28:02

Please come evaluate, please come and help me.

Speaker A 00:28:07

And after I invited them in a couple times and they said, you're doing great, I said, okay, that's not, I, I know I've never been trained.

Speaker A 00:28:18

I know that's not accurate.

Speaker A 00:28:19

And so I would, I had to search out other people, other trained educators to come in and help me and, and guide me and, and help me with, you know, presentation of different types of materials.

Speaker A 00:28:33

And so I, I think I'm still learning.

Speaker A 00:28:36

And I, I don't know that I'm comfortable, but I don't know that I'm ever going to feel that I am really truly an expert Because I always think that, you know, as we, as professionals look at it, you know, what, I should have done this, or I should have done that, you know, whatever it is.

Speaker A 00:28:53

But I also think that that's indicative of a good professional who's going to be critical of themselves and always going to be trying to have that continuous improvement.

Speaker B 00:29:03

I love that.

Speaker B 00:29:04

And I think that idea of learning together, whether it's direct or indirect, like you say, is.

Speaker B 00:29:09

Is.

Speaker B 00:29:09

Is so key.

Speaker B 00:29:10

That happened to me.

Speaker B 00:29:10

I can't remember the exact situation, but recently one of my pupils said, but what about this?

Speaker B 00:29:15

Or we haven't done this, or you ex.

Speaker B 00:29:17

You know, not that you expect me to know this, but I wasn't quite sure where.

Speaker B 00:29:20

But there was something where I just missed the step, or there was just a little bit of understanding or a little bit of something there which wasn't quite embedded in a way that it was.

Speaker B 00:29:29

And it passed me by and.

Speaker B 00:29:31

And I said, thanks for pointing that out, because, you know, I hadn't done that, but because they'd had that communication skill to just say, right, I just need to, you know, just need to sort of go over this or just check this for one minute and, like, say that.

Speaker B 00:29:43

I think the learning curve is both there, and I think it also makes for a very different environment when you're.

Speaker B 00:29:48

When you're teaching them, because it kind of takes the mystique about I know everything, and I'm just telling you what those things are, because then all of a sudden, it's like this becomes a very different experience for both of us.

Speaker B 00:29:58

And I think it becomes a much more human experience.

Speaker B 00:30:01

And then I think that breeds all manner of, you know, expansion and conversations and feeling comfortable, which I think is a.

Speaker B 00:30:08

Is a really supportive thing for everyone.

Speaker A 00:30:10

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker A 00:30:12

And if you think about the.

Speaker A 00:30:15

The way that students are learning today and the amount of information that's out there, you know, before the Internet, you know, you.

Speaker A 00:30:22

You may have been able to get away with that, but with the amount of information that is available, if you come off like that, students are going to.

Speaker A 00:30:30

Number one, they're not going to listen to you.

Speaker A 00:30:32

They're going to tune you out, but they're going to know you're full of it.

Speaker A 00:30:34

Because of all the other information out there, there's no way possible that you could know everything about everything, even in your own little specialty.

Speaker A 00:30:45

There's just no way.

Speaker A 00:30:47

So you.

Speaker A 00:30:48

So you have to.

Speaker A 00:30:49

You have to be open to.

Speaker A 00:30:50

To not know anything.

Speaker A 00:30:51

You have to be open to saying, you know, what you're Right.

Speaker A 00:30:53

You know what I'm.

Speaker A 00:30:55

You.

Speaker A 00:30:56

You may be right here, but this is the way that I've done it.

Speaker A 00:30:58

I'm open to listening to that.

Speaker A 00:31:00

I'm open to letting you try that, and let's see if it works, because there's so.

Speaker A 00:31:04

There's.

Speaker A 00:31:04

There's so much out there now.

Speaker B 00:31:06

Yeah.

Speaker B 00:31:06

And I think.

Speaker B 00:31:07

I think then, I think the young people and the people that you're surrounding yourself with start to feel that what their learning experience is, even within the education system can be different.

Speaker B 00:31:21

So you're still confined to whatever it is that you have to teach and the way the school systems are set up, and certainly sort of in the Western world, as it were, but it then means that they can actually feel and understand that.

Speaker B 00:31:30

You know, I can turn around and say, look, I'm not the greatest musician in the world, and you can watch, you know, Stuart Copeland do stuff with the police and learn a million different things like that.

Speaker B 00:31:40

However, I'm here to get the best out of you in that skill set that I know and to support you to do that and for you to guide me into terms of what you need as well.

Speaker B 00:31:48

And then that way you get the best of both worlds.

Speaker B 00:31:51

Absolutely.

Speaker B 00:31:51

Find that knowledge, find those videos, get all that inspiration from wherever you can get it, because like you say, you've got it at your fingertips now.

Speaker B 00:31:58

But we have the opportunity to be on this journey together.

Speaker B 00:32:00

This is going to help.

Speaker B 00:32:01

And I think that's where real educators, you know, separate themselves out.

Speaker B 00:32:05

And hopefully the more of those that we have within schools, the more chance we have to do that.

Speaker A 00:32:10

Yeah.

Speaker A 00:32:10

And I do think that there is a.

Speaker A 00:32:14

At least in my limited experience, I do think that there is a small shift there, but I think obviously it needs to be more widespread, it needs to be bigger, and I think the school system itself needs to evolve, because I don't think the system itself has evolved at all.

Speaker A 00:32:34

I mean, it's still a 1930s, 1940s, 50s type type of system.

Speaker A 00:32:39

And, you know, we're coming up on 100 years from that, you know, and.

Speaker A 00:32:46

And how.

Speaker A 00:32:47

How we learn the tech with the technology.

Speaker A 00:32:49

And, you know, I don't know if you've seen this, but to me, students are, at least at my level, are so much smarter today when they come see me today than they did 20 years ago.

Speaker A 00:33:02

So much smarter.

Speaker A 00:33:03

They know so much more.

Speaker A 00:33:05

They're so much more entrepreneurial than they.

Speaker A 00:33:08

Than they have ever been.

Speaker A 00:33:11

But the piece that's holding them back is that communication piece.

Speaker B 00:33:15

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker B 00:33:16

And I think that's.

Speaker B 00:33:17

And I think when you can understand that, then you know where you can bring your value to all of those things as well.

Speaker B 00:33:23

And I think, yeah, I think like you say with AI, with technology, the fact there's so much information out there through the positives of social media as well as those sorts of things.

Speaker B 00:33:30

And I say also the culture is very different.

Speaker B 00:33:32

Sort of circling back a little bit towards what we said earlier on.

Speaker B 00:33:35

You know, you don't just do as you're told anymore.

Speaker B 00:33:37

You do sort of have this whole world around of okay, you can say that.

Speaker B 00:33:41

But you know, within my circle of friends as a young person, we might have different beliefs and different things and we won't just toe the line for the sake of it.

Speaker B 00:33:48

Obviously each circumstance is different, but there seems to be the world isn't very like say 1950s where it's.

Speaker B 00:33:54

Yes, you know, that's kind of how it's going to be.

Speaker B 00:33:56

So, yeah, it's really fascinating that.

Speaker B 00:34:00

So I'm always curious when I speak to people who, you know, we're talking in the same way, which I love.

Speaker B 00:34:06

That's why I love the podcast, you know, getting the like minded people, but it's showing it in sort of written, real terms.

Speaker B 00:34:11

Is there a teacher that you had or school experience that you had, which has kind of influenced partly the way that you talk, but certainly the way you're obviously now doing it in terms of the helping people communicate.

Speaker B 00:34:22

And I guess that can be something you experienced which was really positive that you sort of take in.

Speaker B 00:34:26

But also it could be the negative side as well.

Speaker B 00:34:28

Knowing that isn't the route that I want to take or the way I want to approach things.

Speaker A 00:34:32

Well, number one, that's a really, really good question.

Speaker A 00:34:37

And you know, I think people need to actually think about that as a, that type of question as they, as they're going through the education process as parents, what have you, so they can help guide, guide their own kids.

Speaker A 00:34:49

And I cannot remember this professor's name, but I was in college and we, we had had a test that the entire class did really, really bad on, really bad.

Speaker A 00:35:02

And he came in and he was pretty upset with us as a class because we did so bad.

Speaker A 00:35:08

And essentially what he told the class was he can only do so much and that if we as students didn't start taking some ownership and responsibility for our own education, it didn't really matter what he did, that we as students would never ever truly progress, we would never ever truly get to where we need to be.

Speaker A 00:35:32

From a professional Perspective.

Speaker A 00:35:34

So the whole idea of taking responsibility for what our education is, what I'm learning, what I'm going to do with it, and doing the extra things that I needed to do to, to get better, to learn more, was what I got out of that.

Speaker B 00:35:52

I love that.

Speaker B 00:35:52

And you've answered that best piece of advice and education experience at exactly the same time, which I think is, is absolutely brilliant.

Speaker B 00:36:00

And I think when you can have that experience of, of learning certain gifts as well as the like say, the, the, the way of feeling what teachers can do and support is just makes a, such a, such a big, such a big impact on everyone's lives.

Speaker B 00:36:14

And, and if you were kind of sort of gonna stand here and say, okay, so if I was going to give some advice to my younger self, you know, as a more mature Tim, you know, what would you do?

Speaker B 00:36:24

And I will slightly caveat that with the fact that I know we don't necessarily think or listen in the same way when we, when we're younger, but I think it's good for people to hear because if you don't hear, you can't even make that decision at that point.

Speaker A 00:36:36

Exactly.

Speaker A 00:36:37

I would say take the education more seriously and actually do the things that you're supposed to do.

Speaker A 00:36:44

You know, take the actions that you're supposed to take.

Speaker A 00:36:47

You know, if you have a question, raise your hand.

Speaker A 00:36:50

If you have a thought, raise your hand, express it.

Speaker A 00:36:54

Because the more that you do it, the easier it becomes.

Speaker A 00:36:58

And again, when I say I'm looking for leaders, the more that you do it, the more the person next to you is going to say, wow, they can do it.

Speaker A 00:37:08

I'll give it a shot.

Speaker A 00:37:09

And then I can give it a shot.

Speaker A 00:37:10

And so it affects other people as well.

Speaker A 00:37:13

So take your education seriously and actually do the things that you don't want to do.

Speaker A 00:37:19

And the more that you do them, the easier it becomes.

Speaker B 00:37:24

I think that's great advice.

Speaker B 00:37:25

And it just reminds me of the book the Slight Edge, because I think there's so much in the world where it's about I need to do something different to everybody else.

Speaker B 00:37:33

I need to make myself individual.

Speaker B 00:37:35

And, and it's, it's exactly the same sort of thing that, that you just said, which is if you just do what you know you can do, it puts you in that, like, top 5%.

Speaker B 00:37:45

Because most people don't do their homework, most people don't study around their class, most people don't attend all their classes, most people don't do X, Y and Z.

Speaker B 00:37:53

And if you just do what you have around you without doing anything extra.

Speaker B 00:37:58

It immediately makes a difference both in terms of what you can get out of your life, but also in terms of people's perspective of, of who you are and what you're trying to do.

Speaker B 00:38:06

And it's nothing ethereal.

Speaker B 00:38:08

It actually is quite straightforward.

Speaker B 00:38:09

But like I say, you just have to do what's there and make the most of it.

Speaker A 00:38:12

A friend of mine who's also an educator, he's retired now, and we, we have, we have one rule.

Speaker A 00:38:18

Be where you're supposed to be and do what you're supposed to do.

Speaker A 00:38:21

Be where you're supposed to be and do what you're supposed to do.

Speaker A 00:38:23

If, if, if you can do that, everything else takes care of itself.

Speaker A 00:38:27

Yeah, you're going to learn more.

Speaker A 00:38:29

You're.

Speaker A 00:38:29

You're going to be better prepared.

Speaker A 00:38:32

You're going to be visible, you're going to be.

Speaker A 00:38:34

You're.

Speaker A 00:38:34

You're going to be like you said that, that top 5%, just doing.

Speaker A 00:38:38

Being where you're supposed to be and doing what you're supposed to do.

Speaker B 00:38:40

Yeah, couldn't agree more.

Speaker B 00:38:42

Couldn't agree more.

Speaker B 00:38:43

Just reminds me of being a musician.

Speaker B 00:38:44

It's that kind of the number of people who I've worked with who are unbelievably talented.

Speaker B 00:38:49

Are they there on time?

Speaker B 00:38:51

Are they there, you know, making sure everyone's comfortable setting up, making sure everyone's relaxed, not so much.

Speaker B 00:38:57

And it's usually the person who maybe doesn't have that superstar talent but is always there, is a great team player, really supportive.

Speaker B 00:39:03

They're the ones that get booked, and they're the ones that, you know, are actually able to then generate and earn a living from that, because they're just doing those basic things as well.

Speaker B 00:39:10

Of course they're talented, but, you know, like you say, just doing the basics makes all that difference and can really affect people's career.

Speaker A 00:39:17

Really does.

Speaker A 00:39:18

Really does.

Speaker B 00:39:19

Is there a resource that you'd like to share?

Speaker B 00:39:22

And this can be anything from a video, a song, book, podcast, film, and it can be personal or professional, but something that had a bit of an impact or, or something you'd like people to know about.

Speaker A 00:39:31

Yes.

Speaker A 00:39:31

So there are.

Speaker A 00:39:32

There are two relatively new communication books that I think are phenomenal, and one is called the DNA of Engagement.

Speaker A 00:39:40

It's by David Pullen and Sarah Jane McKechnie.

Speaker A 00:39:43

It talks about how to build trust in communication.

Speaker A 00:39:47

And that's a phenomenal book in and of itself.

Speaker A 00:39:51

The other one is called the First Minute by Chris Fenning.

Speaker A 00:39:56

And he talks about how the first minute of any communication is really so important, and it sets the stage whether the person or people that you're talking to are either engaged in listening or not engaged.

Speaker A 00:40:11

And what, what happens if they're, if they're not engaged in listening?

Speaker A 00:40:15

Both of them are.

Speaker A 00:40:16

Both those books are easy reads.

Speaker A 00:40:18

I'm not, I'm not a.

Speaker A 00:40:22

I read a lot.

Speaker A 00:40:22

I mean, but, but I don't necessarily read.

Speaker A 00:40:25

Read books.

Speaker A 00:40:26

I read a lot, but don't necessarily read books.

Speaker A 00:40:28

I read both those books in a day.

Speaker A 00:40:30

They're easy.

Speaker A 00:40:31

They.

Speaker A 00:40:32

There's worksheets in there so that you're not just reading.

Speaker A 00:40:36

There's things that you can go through and work on and practice.

Speaker A 00:40:41

Two great resources.

Speaker B 00:40:42

Yeah.

Speaker B 00:40:43

And I can see how that fits in so well with, like you say, everything that you've spoken about.

Speaker B 00:40:46

It's that combination of.

Speaker B 00:40:47

It's giving you something more than just to sit down, read.

Speaker B 00:40:50

It's giving you that development, that understanding, and like, say, if you can work on it and see how that thing.

Speaker B 00:40:54

Yeah.

Speaker B 00:40:55

Makes.

Speaker B 00:40:55

It makes a big difference.

Speaker B 00:40:58

So, obviously the acronym FIRE is really important to us here on the podcast.

Speaker B 00:41:01

And by that we mean feedback, inspiration, resilience, and empowerment.

Speaker B 00:41:06

What is it that strikes you when you see that either just an individual word or collectively?

Speaker A 00:41:11

Well, all of them collectively, I think, are so important and needed in education.

Speaker A 00:41:17

But I'm going to focus on resilience and empowerment because for me, if we can get students to understand that doesn't really matter what happened, whether you got a good grade, got a bad grade, whatever it is.

Speaker A 00:41:32

Something bad happened to you at home.

Speaker A 00:41:34

You had this, you had, you had this horrible situation that you're dealing with.

Speaker A 00:41:39

It will be okay, and you will eventually get over it and stand up and you have people supporting you, especially from the education space that, that are going to help you get through whatever it is.

Speaker A 00:41:51

I threw up in front of people, and guess what?

Speaker A 00:41:55

It was okay.

Speaker A 00:41:56

The class got a good laugh.

Speaker A 00:41:57

I necessarily wasn't laughing at the time, but it all turns out okay.

Speaker A 00:42:01

You're going to learn from.

Speaker A 00:42:02

You're going to learn from mistakes, you're going to learn from good things, you're going to learn from bad things.

Speaker A 00:42:07

Don't let something that is so small keep you down and keep you from progressing.

Speaker A 00:42:15

And empowerment.

Speaker A 00:42:16

And, you know, from a, from an education perspective, I'm just going to give a quick story here.

Speaker A 00:42:23

My wife is also an educator.

Speaker A 00:42:24

She retired from public school teaching here a few years ago.

Speaker A 00:42:27

And we've got two daughters.

Speaker A 00:42:29

And when they started going to school.

Speaker A 00:42:31

I said, look, I told the kids, look, if you got an issue with your teacher, don't come to me about it.

Speaker A 00:42:37

I want you to go and address it.

Speaker A 00:42:40

And then at that point, if you don't feel like you've gotten a satisfactory answer, and I'm not saying that you got what you got what you wanted, I'm saying a satisfactory answer, then you can come to me and then we'll go from there.

Speaker A 00:42:54

And my wife was, was not happy with that at all.

Speaker A 00:42:56

She said, you can't do that to them.

Speaker A 00:42:58

I said, look, we need to start teaching them at a young age that it's okay to have conversations, that it's okay to advocate.

Speaker A 00:43:06

Again goes back to advocating for your own education.

Speaker A 00:43:09

It goes back to interacting with, with different people, interacting with adults, interacting with outside of that comfort zone and expressing your own thoughts and wants and needs.

Speaker A 00:43:22

Because if we wait until they're 17, 18, 19 years old to start teaching these things, that's really too late.

Speaker A 00:43:29

If you're in first grade and you didn't got a bad grade on paper or you didn't understand something, don't come to me.

Speaker A 00:43:35

So I go to the teacher, you go talk to the teacher, you work those things out.

Speaker A 00:43:39

And I think we need to do a better job from an older generation perspective, empowering our younger generations to step outside their comfort zone, take some responsibility for their education, take some responsibility and start those conversations.

Speaker A 00:43:56

We're here to support you, but you have to take the first step.

Speaker B 00:44:01

And I think doing that in a respectful and an understanding and I think doing it in the way that you said it will become a natural way as well.

Speaker B 00:44:08

Because you can only do that as say a seven year old in a seven year old way.

Speaker B 00:44:13

And so you'll learn about those communication skills in that natural way.

Speaker B 00:44:16

And I think the other thing that always strikes me is the fact that so many people with an education, everything's the same.

Speaker B 00:44:25

Like say many people don't do this, many people don't do that.

Speaker B 00:44:28

So if you do what you just described, but you do it in a really positive way, that educator is going to go, wow, my day is very different.

Speaker B 00:44:37

My understanding of what's possible is very different.

Speaker B 00:44:40

You have no idea, you know, what we've both gained out of doing this.

Speaker B 00:44:44

And that's going to change so much for so many people.

Speaker B 00:44:47

And I think most people wouldn't accept, wouldn't understand that, or certainly wouldn't want to accept it to begin with.

Speaker B 00:44:53

But I think if you spoke to somebody and Explained as long as it's done in the correct way, that's going to make a positive difference to everybody.

Speaker A 00:44:59

Yeah.

Speaker A 00:45:00

And as educators, we have to be open to it.

Speaker A 00:45:02

And I would, I would tell my, my students, you know, first day of class if I've never had them before, look, I'm, I'm different than probably any other teacher, professor you've ever had.

Speaker A 00:45:11

Number one, we're going to have open, honest communication.

Speaker A 00:45:13

Number two, if you have an issue, talk to me about it, question me.

Speaker A 00:45:17

One, if I say something you don't like, question me about it and it's okay.

Speaker A 00:45:22

And then when they do that, my response is going to tell the entire class if I truly meant it or not.

Speaker A 00:45:31

And then once they see my response and they say, oh, wow, he did truly mean it, think of the opportunities that that opens up in the, in the minds of these list of the students that, you know, the way we've been doing things.

Speaker A 00:45:45

Or I may, maybe I could do that with Dr.

Speaker A 00:45:48

Newman and maybe I should go and talk to this other professor because I've got some issues in that class where I've got some, some things I don't understand.

Speaker A 00:45:56

Give that a try there, you know, and it gives them that opportunity to, to try new things and say, you know, it's not always the way, it's not the way that we've always been taught that it is.

Speaker B 00:46:08

And I love that in terms of trying new ways and with different people, because I think you're absolutely right.

Speaker B 00:46:13

There are many different people in the world.

Speaker B 00:46:14

And just because you like communicating with someone like yourself who's up, open to those things, but not everyone's going to be like that.

Speaker B 00:46:22

So learning to have that communication with people who are receptive, those people that aren't receptive, understanding how you go about maybe getting your point across or being able to argue your point or, or be expressive in what you want in a positive way, if even if you don't get the response that you want, like, say you're learning so much about the here and now within the education system, but certainly you're going to come across that so much in the outside world as well.

Speaker B 00:46:46

And all these things are just really helping you develop as a learner, as a human, and like you say, setting yourself apart in the communication sense, which is what we're talking about today.

Speaker B 00:46:55

But I think probably the most important lesson that people are going to learn as we sort of step into this sort of new, modern.

Speaker B 00:47:01

Modern age going forward.

Speaker A 00:47:03

Exactly.

Speaker A 00:47:04

Absolutely.

Speaker B 00:47:05

So thanks so much for chatting to us.

Speaker B 00:47:07

Tim, it's been fascinating to hear the story and, and, and share some of that wisdom that you've had.

Speaker B 00:47:14

Where would you like people to go to find out more about you, what it is that you offer and, you know, get some of those skills that so many people are going to be looking for?

Speaker A 00:47:22

People can go to my website.

Speaker A 00:47:23

Tim Newman speaks timnewman speaks.com that's probably the best place to go.

Speaker A 00:47:28

They can sign up for free resources.

Speaker A 00:47:33

That's probably the best place to start.

Speaker A 00:47:35

I've got a form for public speaking that they can register for.

Speaker A 00:47:39

They could sign up for a free 30 minute consultation with me.

Speaker A 00:47:44

I'm very open talking to people and figuring out the best way forward because again, you know, people are at different spots on their, on their journey and not everybody needs the same type of help.

Speaker A 00:47:57

So again, very open to talking to people.

Speaker B 00:47:59

Fantastic.

Speaker B 00:47:59

Thank you so much for that.

Speaker B 00:48:00

And I think that comes across so much in us just chatting today.

Speaker B 00:48:03

That's why I love the podcast so much.

Speaker B 00:48:05

Like I say, the website can say one thing.

Speaker B 00:48:07

You know, all the professional side of it says that, but there's something about hearing someone's voice, about seeing the way they react and understanding who they are.

Speaker B 00:48:14

It really makes a difference, separates themselves out in terms of that communication, which is the most important thing.

Speaker B 00:48:18

So, yeah, thanks so much for that.

Speaker A 00:48:20

Well, Mark, thank you so much again for the opportunity to speak with your educational fire community.

Speaker A 00:48:25

I really do appreciate it.

Speaker B 00:48:28

Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire.