Finding Your Voice: Supporting Complex Kids with Community and Courage

Mark Taylor 00:00:01

Hello, my name is Mark Taylor, and welcome to the Education on Fire podcast, the place for creative and inspiring learning from around the world.

Mark Taylor 00:00:14

Listen to teachers, parents and mentors share how they are supporting children to live their best, authentic life and are proving to be a guiding light to us all.

Michelle 00:00:22

I'm trying to reach these mamas that are just struggling and they don't know where to go and it doesn't matter where you are in the world.

Michelle 00:00:34

We're here.

Michelle 00:00:35

We're here.

Michelle 00:00:37

Expect the miracle to happen because it will come together.

Michelle 00:00:41

You will find yourself.

Michelle 00:00:43

It's going to be hard, it's not easy, but just expect that these things are going to come together and you're going to figure it out.

Michelle 00:00:51

When you get in a community like that, even if you only know one little thing that you can help one other mom out there that's dealing with this, it brings that joy that you can't really even explain to people.

Michelle 00:01:08

You have to empower yourself to be that advocate for your kids.

Michelle 00:01:14

So, I mean, I love that acronym, the fire.

Michelle 00:01:17

I love it, everything about it, because you have to have feedback.

Michelle 00:01:21

You have to be inspired to do it, even when you're not wanting to do it.

Michelle 00:01:28

The insurance companies, you have to learn how to speak their language because if not, they're going to deny everything that you need for your child.

Michelle 00:01:41

The one advice I would give to a mom right now is don't forget yourself.

Michelle 00:01:47

It is so easy to just give everything to these children.

Michelle 00:01:53

You give everything to them because you love them so much and you want them to do well.

Michelle 00:02:00

But if you forget about yourself, if you're not well, they're not going to be well.

Mark Taylor 00:02:07

Hello.

Mark Taylor 00:02:08

And that was Michelle show id, and she's talking about collective wisdom for complex kids and how her support group and the work that she's doing is helping mothers and parents out there who need that extra bit of understanding that we all need.

Mark Taylor 00:02:21

I think, when we have a complex child that we need to navigate through the system.

Mark Taylor 00:02:25

I really hope you enjoyed this conversation and a big thank you to the national association for Primary Education for their continued support and sponsorship of the show.

Mark Taylor 00:02:34

Hi, Michelle.

Mark Taylor 00:02:35

Thank you so much for joining us here on the Education on Far podcast.

Mark Taylor 00:02:38

It's great to chat to people from around the world, but I think there's always a universal kind of message which is about how we're supporting people, especially how we're supporting our children and being a voice for ourselves and our families, which I think is such an important thing.

Mark Taylor 00:02:52

So, yeah, thanks so much for being here.

Michelle 00:02:55

Thank you for having me.

Michelle 00:02:56

Mark, this is awesome.

Michelle 00:02:57

I love it.

Mark Taylor 00:02:59

So can we start.

Mark Taylor 00:03:00

Give us a bit of a background about what's your mission, what is it that you're so passionate about, and how that obviously is then sort of related to your family.

Michelle 00:03:11

So I have what I like to call a complex kid.

Michelle 00:03:15

And when you have a complex kid, you know you have a complex kid.

Michelle 00:03:19

Everybody asks me, what is a complex kid?

Michelle 00:03:22

I'm like, if you have one, you know one, you know what it is.

Michelle 00:03:26

But my son has.

Michelle 00:03:29

We just recently found that he has a genetic disorder.

Michelle 00:03:33

It's called TBR1.

Michelle 00:03:34

And he is 1 out of 190 in the world as of right now with this diagnosis.

Michelle 00:03:44

So for the past 10 years, we have gone through, as you can imagine, all sorts of testing, trying to figure out why he had adhd, where all of those things came through, why he wasn't learning, why he couldn't speak.

Michelle 00:04:05

And so we are going into.

Michelle 00:04:08

We are actually in fifth grade right now, and we're still not writing or reading, but we now know what is causing all of that.

Michelle 00:04:18

And TBR1 is the genetic disorder, and it causes intellectual disabilities, ADHD, epilepsy, OCD tendencies, autistic traits.

Michelle 00:04:33

It has a whole list of diagnoses that you can get before you find out about TBR1.

Mark Taylor 00:04:42

Right.

Michelle 00:04:43

So what I started once going through this, I became his best advocate because as a mom of a child like this, you have to learn how to advocate for your son in schools, with the.

Michelle 00:05:00

With the medical doctors.

Michelle 00:05:02

In anything that he does, we have to advocate for him.

Michelle 00:05:07

So I'm trying to teach moms to become that for their children, because we can't expect other people to do it for us.

Michelle 00:05:15

We have to take it on our upon our hands to actually become that person for them.

Mark Taylor 00:05:23

And I think for me, I mean, I've not been through this particular situation, but I have been, you know, through illnesses and people within our family.

Mark Taylor 00:05:30

You kind of hope that the medical profession or the people around you are doing everything they can to support you, give you the best advice.

Mark Taylor 00:05:38

They're sort of looking after you, which they are to the best of their ability.

Mark Taylor 00:05:43

But they're doing it for tens, hundreds, thousands of people as well.

Mark Taylor 00:05:47

So the people it really matters to are you and your family.

Mark Taylor 00:05:50

And I think it was when we sort of certainly had that sense of if we want something done or we've got a question, or we feel like we're.

Mark Taylor 00:05:57

We need to ask again, actually, it is you that needs to do it.

Mark Taylor 00:06:00

And that just sounds exactly what you've been able to do.

Michelle 00:06:05

Yes, I, you know, as good as the doctors are, as good as the therapists are, they can't do it for you.

Michelle 00:06:14

And what, you know, they're looking at the lens of what they do.

Michelle 00:06:18

So if you go to a speech therapist, that's her lens.

Michelle 00:06:21

Right.

Michelle 00:06:22

She's looking at you as a speech therapy.

Michelle 00:06:25

And here's what you need to do.

Michelle 00:06:27

When you're going to a geneticist, they're going to look through the lens of a geneticist.

Michelle 00:06:33

So who's going to put it all together?

Michelle 00:06:37

We have to do it.

Michelle 00:06:39

Nobody else can do it unless.

Michelle 00:06:42

And even if you hire somebody, that person won't be able to do it.

Mark Taylor 00:06:46

Yeah.

Michelle 00:06:47

So, yes, we have to become that person for them.

Mark Taylor 00:06:51

And I guess the other thing is that, like you say, there's always these lenses from people that are helping you, and you're the only one who really stands in the middle and is able to.

Mark Taylor 00:06:59

Yes, I've got all of this.

Mark Taylor 00:07:01

I actually, I understand all of those things because I'm living it, I'm breathing it, I'm seeing it every day.

Mark Taylor 00:07:06

And that makes a really big difference in terms of what happens.

Mark Taylor 00:07:11

And then, like you say, pointing people in the right direction.

Mark Taylor 00:07:15

And I guess the reason that you've been able to sort of help other people is that you realize that you needed that extra support or that you wanted a community that was going to help you rather than, I guess, literally sort of pulling your hair out, thinking, I don't quite know where to go or what to do and how I can even get the support I need, let alone for my child.

Michelle 00:07:34

Oh, it's so true.

Michelle 00:07:36

You know, when you first find out that your child has something, you have to start searching.

Michelle 00:07:50

But who knows where do you go?

Michelle 00:07:53

Do you go to a physician?

Michelle 00:07:55

Do you go to.

Michelle 00:07:57

Usually you go to a pediatrician is your first line of, you know, questions.

Michelle 00:08:05

But most of the time the pediatricians don't even know where to send you to.

Michelle 00:08:11

And so it's.

Michelle 00:08:13

You have.

Michelle 00:08:14

There was such a need.

Michelle 00:08:15

I used to, oh, my gosh.

Michelle 00:08:18

I used to ask questions.

Michelle 00:08:20

I.

Michelle 00:08:21

And I, and I work in the medical profession.

Michelle 00:08:24

My day job, I am a sales rep for an orthopedic company here in the US and we.

Michelle 00:08:31

I work in the operating room most of the time.

Michelle 00:08:35

And so being in the medical profession, you.

Michelle 00:08:38

I already knew certain things and I knew, like, what to ask in a way, but I was still completely lost.

Michelle 00:08:47

So there is a need for moms to learn.

Michelle 00:08:50

There is a need for A, a road map to follow when you have these complex kids or you know, whatever you want to call them.

Michelle 00:09:03

But if you don't have that roadmap, you're going everywhere and you can't find.

Michelle 00:09:12

It just takes too long to get to where you need to get.

Mark Taylor 00:09:17

So tell people about what it is that you set up and how you are supporting people and I guess sort of moving on from that.

Mark Taylor 00:09:24

Sort of what that sort of looks like practically for those people involved.

Michelle 00:09:30

Sure.

Michelle 00:09:30

So I came up, I, I sat down and this was about four months ago, I decided that I wanted to do this.

Michelle 00:09:37

So I started doing it and I sat down and I was like, okay, what did I do?

Michelle 00:09:42

What were the steps that I took to get to where I am today?

Michelle 00:09:46

And I decided that the first thing that I had to do was find a team that would be a medical team around my son.

Michelle 00:09:59

So I was able to find speech therapists, occupational therapist, a good developmental pediatrician, someone a therapist who deals with adhd, a behavioral person.

Michelle 00:10:20

So you have to come like, you have to find that team that is going to communicate with each other and help your child.

Michelle 00:10:29

Okay, so I, that was the T.

Michelle 00:10:33

I actually have a, it's called Thrive, the Thrive method.

Michelle 00:10:38

So that's the T, that's the teamwork and then the age are the helping systems.

Michelle 00:10:44

So the health systems that you have around you.

Michelle 00:10:46

So the school district, you have to know how to deal with the school districts, you have to learn how to deal with the state funded programs.

Michelle 00:10:56

Here in the US it's all state funded programs and how to get the best benefit from that.

Michelle 00:11:05

The worst of them all our insurance companies.

Michelle 00:11:09

The insurance companies, you have to learn how to speak their language because if not, they're going to not deny everything that you need for your child.

Michelle 00:11:21

That's what they sit there, they, that's what they want to do is deny, deny, deny.

Michelle 00:11:26

So you have to learn that.

Michelle 00:11:28

So that is the age and the thrive.

Michelle 00:11:31

The R are your relationships.

Michelle 00:11:33

Right?

Michelle 00:11:34

You have to have your relationships like your family, your, your like building a village around you.

Michelle 00:11:43

When you have a complex child, let me tell you, your family falls apart sometimes because it's not an everyday you do the same things.

Michelle 00:11:57

You're dealing with meltdowns, you're dealing with therapies here and there and caring, taking your, your son, in my case my son to physical therapy, to speech therapy, to you know, psychologists.

Michelle 00:12:13

And so my other daughter, my 7 year old daughter now up until she was about 4, 3 or 4, she went with him to every single Therapy appointment because she had to go.

Michelle 00:12:27

I.

Michelle 00:12:27

I couldn't leave her behind.

Michelle 00:12:29

So, you know, that affects the family.

Michelle 00:12:32

So you have to have that you have to have build a.

Michelle 00:12:37

Support, a family support around your child and around yourself.

Michelle 00:12:42

And that leads to the I, which is the integration and that is taking care of yourself.

Michelle 00:12:47

You have to take care as, as a mother or as a father who's dealing with these type of events and these types, types of things.

Michelle 00:12:56

You have to take care of yourself.

Michelle 00:12:58

You have to take time, you have to do things, nice things for yourself.

Michelle 00:13:02

If you're not well, your child is not going to be well.

Michelle 00:13:07

So you have to do that.

Michelle 00:13:09

And then the V is validation.

Michelle 00:13:12

So it's.

Michelle 00:13:13

You have to celebrate every moment.

Michelle 00:13:16

Celebration is what is going to make you happy and it's what's going to take you through the bad times and the good times.

Michelle 00:13:25

So remember to celebrate every single little step that you're.

Michelle 00:13:31

Anything that your child does celebrate.

Michelle 00:13:35

And then the last part of this and this goes, is just expect the miracle to happen because it will come together.

Michelle 00:13:42

You will find yourself.

Michelle 00:13:44

Things will come together.

Michelle 00:13:47

It's going to be hard, it's not easy, but just expect that these things are going to come together and you're going to figure it out.

Michelle 00:13:54

If you follow these steps, you'll figure it out.

Mark Taylor 00:13:57

So that makes a lot of sense.

Mark Taylor 00:14:00

And I think being able to sort of understand each of those elements and I'm even myself, you know, you can start to see how that fits into anybody's life in terms of all of the things which are important, especially like say when you've got multiple children and you've got different things that you have to attend to and, and one child, if they do have these needs, then of course the focus becomes there and a lot of the energy goes there.

Mark Taylor 00:14:20

And understanding how that fits in with the other child, but also with yourself, like say, in terms of looking after yourself and all those things, it sort of, I think compartmentalizing all those things is really, really supportive.

Mark Taylor 00:14:31

And, and so how do you then do that for the people that are sort of, you're, you're helping?

Mark Taylor 00:14:38

Is it, is it a Facebook group?

Mark Taylor 00:14:41

Is it a community?

Mark Taylor 00:14:42

Is it a meeting in person?

Mark Taylor 00:14:44

How does that sort of support then work?

Michelle 00:14:48

So I, the way I started this and the easiest way I found was through a Facebook group.

Michelle 00:14:56

So I started Thrive.

Michelle 00:15:00

And you can look it up.

Michelle 00:15:02

It's Thrive Knit for parenting parents with neurodivergent kids.

Michelle 00:15:07

And in there I do trainings and we talk about all kinds of Things that relates to complex kids.

Michelle 00:15:19

And then if you, and then we have a membership site where you have all of my webinars and you also have access to me to ask questions, to go over anything that we need to.

Michelle 00:15:34

I will help you through how to put together an email for an insurance company and how are you going to get the school district to approve extra speech therapy sessions for your child?

Michelle 00:15:49

So we talk a lot about that.

Michelle 00:15:51

But the main thing is that thrive, that community, because you have to have a community of moms.

Michelle 00:16:01

That's one thing that I found is that as a mom of a complex kid, the moms who do not have complex children, they don't understand a lot of times.

Michelle 00:16:14

And so you have to have that community of people who understand what you're going through so you can feel good that it's not just you and that you're not alone.

Michelle 00:16:26

So I try to bring the moms together through that group and we have conversations and we do once a month meetings that we talk about all things bring it on, you know, for 90 minutes, it's your time.

Michelle 00:16:42

Let's talk to each other.

Michelle 00:16:44

Let's, let's build upon those things.

Michelle 00:16:46

So that's how I've been helping them is through this Facebook group.

Michelle 00:16:50

And then they can sign up with me if they want some more one on one if they want to learn exactly how to go through the thrive.

Michelle 00:16:57

And we have a lot of resources also with samples of letters and emails that you can send to insurance companies or whatever.

Mark Taylor 00:17:13

And I think, yeah, I mean I think for me a lot of it's that sense of you probably feel like you're burdening everyone around you, like say when you want to offload or you want to ask those questions or whatever it happens to be.

Mark Taylor 00:17:24

But to be in a group of people that understand the circumstances but don't have that personal relationship that you can't recreate that in any other way.

Mark Taylor 00:17:34

So I can understand why it's so powerful.

Michelle 00:17:38

Yeah, it's.

Michelle 00:17:40

It was one of the hardest things was trying to conform my life and what I had in my house to people who didn't have that.

Michelle 00:17:52

It was, there's, there's, you just, it doesn't work.

Michelle 00:17:57

So we ended up like our closest friends are moms and dads who have those types of kids too.

Michelle 00:18:05

Because you know, why you get together, there's a meltdown.

Michelle 00:18:08

You're going to get up, you're going to go deal with it and then you're going to come back and it's okay, you know, it's a meltdown.

Michelle 00:18:15

It happens.

Michelle 00:18:16

Let's continue the conversation and the glass of wine or the cup of coffee or whatever it is that you're enjoying at that moment.

Michelle 00:18:24

But we understand each other.

Michelle 00:18:26

We know where we are, we know who we are, and we know what's happening to our kids too.

Michelle 00:18:31

We understand those things.

Mark Taylor 00:18:33

So, yeah, so, I mean, such a big and integral part of, like, say, you're the.

Mark Taylor 00:18:39

The dynamics and the identity and like, you say, just the way your life works.

Mark Taylor 00:18:43

And so it can be, I can understand, you know, like attracts like, isn't it, in that sort of scenario?

Mark Taylor 00:18:49

So I can see why it's such a.

Mark Taylor 00:18:52

Why that would be the case.

Mark Taylor 00:18:53

And.

Mark Taylor 00:18:53

And I think as well, just, Just sort of hearing how you've gone about it and sort of your demeanor with it as well, is the fact that, you know, it's not as if your struggles are over.

Mark Taylor 00:19:02

It's not as if there isn't.

Mark Taylor 00:19:03

There's still a world that you're having to navigate.

Mark Taylor 00:19:07

But I.

Mark Taylor 00:19:08

I mean, is it that you're.

Mark Taylor 00:19:09

Because you're able to support other people as well, that there's something within that that's given you a gift that probably you wouldn't have thought would have been the case, you know, even sort of a year or two ago.

Michelle 00:19:20

I never thought that this was what I was going to do.

Michelle 00:19:23

I still have a day job.

Michelle 00:19:25

I still do what I do.

Michelle 00:19:26

I'm still in the operating room.

Michelle 00:19:29

But, you know, it has been the most fulfilling part of my life in the past.

Michelle 00:19:37

I can't even tell you how long I've been doing my job for 17 years.

Michelle 00:19:42

And I've been telling people it's been so fun.

Michelle 00:19:46

I'm participating in podcasts, I am doing, you know, I'm helping these moms.

Michelle 00:19:52

And it feels so good to be doing that.

Michelle 00:19:56

And I feel like when you get in a community like that, even if you only know one little thing, that you can help one other mom out there that's dealing with this, it.

Michelle 00:20:08

It brings that joy that you can't really even explain to people.

Michelle 00:20:13

But yes, I just helped that moment, even if it was just that little tiny thing that I said.

Mark Taylor 00:20:19

And I guess that's the thing about a collective, isn't it?

Mark Taylor 00:20:22

It's like everyone's experience is slightly different, even if the circumstance seems like it's the same.

Mark Taylor 00:20:27

And those sort of pearls of wisdom or those experiences that you can share, you know, it's like a gold mine there, because what you can do is you can just think, I would have never come across that or, or got to that same situation or that solution of that particular moment.

Mark Taylor 00:20:42

But because you've heard, you know, 10 people or 20 people or however many people share those, you start to go, oh, yes.

Mark Taylor 00:20:48

And actually.

Mark Taylor 00:20:49

But then I.

Mark Taylor 00:20:50

My experience was this and I was able to do that.

Mark Taylor 00:20:52

And even if you don't think it's a big deal for someone else who hasn't come across it or have not made that work, then of course, like I say, it can, it can change that moment, which we know.

Mark Taylor 00:21:01

Especially if you have people with complex needs that can change your.

Mark Taylor 00:21:06

The next five minutes or half an hour or the rest of your day.

Mark Taylor 00:21:09

And that has a big sort of ripple effect.

Michelle 00:21:12

Yeah.

Michelle 00:21:13

One thing that I always say to the moms, especially when they're starting out, is you are not alone.

Michelle 00:21:21

You are not alone.

Michelle 00:21:24

We're here.

Michelle 00:21:25

And that support you because that's how you feel.

Michelle 00:21:29

You feel alone.

Michelle 00:21:31

And.

Michelle 00:21:31

But you're not alone.

Mark Taylor 00:21:35

And in terms of the people that you're able to support sort of, sort of through the group, does it have to be sort of California related?

Mark Taylor 00:21:44

Does it have to be us related or is it just literally child related?

Mark Taylor 00:21:47

And the fact that you need support in some way no matter where you may be in the world.

Michelle 00:21:53

So we, we do support all from all over.

Michelle 00:21:57

We really do.

Michelle 00:21:58

The one thing that I feel like it would be a little bit different would be the support systems.

Michelle 00:22:04

Right.

Michelle 00:22:04

So the insurance companies, the, the school districts, I think that they work differently in other, in other countries.

Michelle 00:22:14

And also like the funded programs, like the state funded programs or the country funded programs, I don't know what those are, but that, that is one part of the whole picture.

Michelle 00:22:28

And so in California, I have resources in Southern California and in some other places.

Michelle 00:22:36

So for the people who live around here, I can probably help a little bit more.

Michelle 00:22:41

But I am still trying to learn more about other states and other places, so I can also help them.

Michelle 00:22:49

And.

Michelle 00:22:51

But for, you know, I don't feel like it's just for moms in California.

Michelle 00:22:57

This is something that you even said that Mark just a little bit ago.

Michelle 00:23:01

You can see how this would work for anybody, right?

Michelle 00:23:04

Like this program.

Michelle 00:23:07

And so it's.

Michelle 00:23:10

I think it's.

Michelle 00:23:11

I'm trying to reach these mamas that are just struggling and they don't know where to go.

Michelle 00:23:18

And it doesn't matter where you are in the world.

Michelle 00:23:22

We're here.

Michelle 00:23:23

We're here.

Mark Taylor 00:23:25

And I guess that, you know, just that idea that sometimes you just need a hug.

Mark Taylor 00:23:29

And even if it happens to be a virtual one across the world, you know, that can be the biggest thing.

Mark Taylor 00:23:34

And then, then like I say, even if the, the nuts and bolts of some of those things that you mentioned might be different, the fact you've got a cheerleader or you've got someone who can just go now, just make another phone call, or just try, try this or try that, or I know somebody who's been in that particular situation in like, say, that state or that country or whatever it happens to be.

Mark Taylor 00:23:54

There's more chance of it being supportive, being in it than not being in it, I think is the things.

Mark Taylor 00:23:59

And whether, like, say it's that emotional support or even any of the other stuff, it's got to be.

Mark Taylor 00:24:03

It's got to be a real sort of positive experience.

Michelle 00:24:08

For sure.

Michelle 00:24:08

For sure.

Michelle 00:24:09

And that's what we try to do.

Michelle 00:24:10

Right.

Michelle 00:24:11

It's a community.

Michelle 00:24:12

It's a community.

Michelle 00:24:13

And I would love to mention something.

Michelle 00:24:16

So, Mark, I'm actually from Brazil.

Michelle 00:24:17

I grew up in Brazil and my.

Michelle 00:24:20

I speak Portuguese, so there's actually some women that are in there from Brazil.

Michelle 00:24:27

And so we.

Michelle 00:24:29

It's kind of fun because I speak Portuguese to them, even though they all kind of pick up on the English too.

Michelle 00:24:35

So, you know, it is different.

Michelle 00:24:37

It's a little different.

Michelle 00:24:38

But guess what?

Michelle 00:24:39

We're dealing with the same things and we still need this same information and the same community, the same village, if you can call that.

Mark Taylor 00:24:53

Yeah.

Mark Taylor 00:24:54

And that's.

Mark Taylor 00:24:54

I guess that's humanity at the end of the day, isn't it?

Mark Taylor 00:24:56

No matter what you.

Mark Taylor 00:24:57

What, what, what.

Mark Taylor 00:24:58

What the circumstances are might be slightly different, but the actual.

Mark Taylor 00:25:02

The human need is.

Mark Taylor 00:25:03

Is.

Mark Taylor 00:25:04

Is going to be universal, which is.

Mark Taylor 00:25:05

Is so incredibly important.

Mark Taylor 00:25:09

I mean, you're sort of dealing with schools and, you know, in this particular situation.

Mark Taylor 00:25:14

But is there an experience that you had at school or a teacher or someone that sort of had an impact on your life?

Mark Taylor 00:25:20

And did it.

Mark Taylor 00:25:21

Has it sort of helped you in what you're trying to do in terms of whether that was a, you know, a conversation or an environment or an experience that you just think, oh, yeah, I can remember that being a positive one that you're able then to help you sort of navigate where you are now.

Michelle 00:25:37

I'm going to tell you about this woman, and she made a big, big difference in our lives.

Michelle 00:25:46

So Drake was very little.

Michelle 00:25:49

She.

Michelle 00:25:50

So Drake was three years old and he entered preschool with the school district here in the United States.

Michelle 00:25:56

When you turn three years old, you go into the school district and they start pre K And so they are in.

Michelle 00:26:05

Drake was in a special education class, and we.

Michelle 00:26:09

He made some friends in the classroom that we are still friends with to this day.

Michelle 00:26:15

He's 10 now, but we've stayed together.

Michelle 00:26:18

And one of the moms there, she was an educational psychologist, and she was working in the special education area, not in our school district, but in other school districts.

Michelle 00:26:33

And to this day, I look at her, we go, they.

Michelle 00:26:39

They play soccer together.

Michelle 00:26:41

My.

Michelle 00:26:41

My son and her son, they're in the same soccer team.

Michelle 00:26:45

And I look at her and I have so much gratitude because she really taught me so much about how to go and how to work with the educational system.

Michelle 00:26:59

She is now the director for our special education services for my school district.

Michelle 00:27:07

And so it's great to see that she's moved up in the world.

Michelle 00:27:11

And she is just amazing, an amazing person.

Michelle 00:27:15

And I feel like if it wasn't for her in the hours out.

Michelle 00:27:20

I'm not.

Michelle 00:27:21

I'm not kidding you.

Michelle 00:27:22

It's hours that she spent with me on the phone looking over his information.

Michelle 00:27:30

What do we need to do?

Michelle 00:27:31

How do we get this.

Michelle 00:27:32

How do we get Drake to this school?

Michelle 00:27:35

Because this school is better for him.

Michelle 00:27:37

She literally spent so much time with us, and now she has the opportunity to help so many people in my school district.

Michelle 00:27:48

And she does such an amazing job.

Michelle 00:27:51

So I love her.

Michelle 00:27:53

And she has really done something for us that if it wasn't for her, like, we.

Michelle 00:28:03

We wouldn't have had access to it.

Mark Taylor 00:28:06

I love that.

Mark Taylor 00:28:07

And I also love the sort of the paying it forward idea as well, because, I mean, that's as.

Mark Taylor 00:28:11

Without any details, you know, that's essentially what you're doing for those people that you're helping as well.

Mark Taylor 00:28:16

There'll be someone in the group going, but without you, there was no way of doing that.

Mark Taylor 00:28:19

And I just love the way those things sort of go full circle.

Michelle 00:28:24

Yes.

Mark Taylor 00:28:26

Is there a piece of advice you've been given?

Mark Taylor 00:28:28

Also a piece of advice you might give your younger self now?

Mark Taylor 00:28:31

And I guess this may work beautifully in terms of the advice that you're able to support other mums with in terms of how to help and something you'd like to share from that point.

Michelle 00:28:42

The one advice I would give to a mom right now is don't forget yourself.

Michelle 00:28:49

It is so easy to just give everything to these children.

Michelle 00:28:55

You give your.

Michelle 00:28:56

You give everything to them because you love them so much and you want them to do well.

Michelle 00:29:03

But if you forget about yourself, if you're not well, they're not going to be well, so I.

Michelle 00:29:10

I went down that rabbit hole.

Michelle 00:29:12

I.

Michelle 00:29:12

I was not well, and.

Michelle 00:29:14

And I wasn't well for a long time, but it's because I forgot about myself.

Michelle 00:29:20

And I put everything that I had, every moment and every thought into helping him, and I forgot about myself.

Michelle 00:29:31

So that is the one thing that I would have gone back and I would have told myself about probably eight years ago.

Michelle 00:29:40

Don't forget about yourself.

Mark Taylor 00:29:43

Yeah, I.

Mark Taylor 00:29:44

I think that sort of literally is sort of running.

Mark Taylor 00:29:47

Running dry because of that.

Mark Taylor 00:29:49

There's only so far you can go, isn't there?

Mark Taylor 00:29:51

Even though you're doing it from the best place and you're trying to do everything you possibly can, if you're not replenishing what you need and giving what.

Mark Taylor 00:29:58

What you need in order to kind of be your best version.

Mark Taylor 00:30:01

And I think.

Mark Taylor 00:30:02

I think it goes from the fact that you obviously physically and emotionally need to be there for people, but I think also there's something almost unsaid that people relate to because of who you are when you're looking after yourself.

Mark Taylor 00:30:13

And it's such an important thing.

Mark Taylor 00:30:15

And like I say, so many people need.

Mark Taylor 00:30:17

Need remember reminding of that on a regular basis.

Mark Taylor 00:30:20

So I think, yeah, it's definitely great advice.

Michelle 00:30:23

Yes.

Michelle 00:30:24

Yes.

Mark Taylor 00:30:25

Is there a resource you'd like to share?

Mark Taylor 00:30:27

And this can be personal, professional, but anything from a song, a video, book, podcast, film, but something that's had an impact or something you think would be good for people to hear.

Michelle 00:30:38

I.

Michelle 00:30:40

There is a video of my son, and I remember this very, very well.

Michelle 00:30:45

And I love this video because it was the first time he ever said his very first word that was not that he wanted it.

Michelle 00:30:56

And his first word was not mom.

Michelle 00:30:58

It was not dad.

Michelle 00:31:00

It was more.

Michelle 00:31:02

So we have him on the.

Michelle 00:31:05

My.

Michelle 00:31:06

My husband is throwing him on the bed and on top of a bunch of pillows.

Michelle 00:31:11

And he was just having the best time, right?

Michelle 00:31:15

He was about three, three and a half almost.

Michelle 00:31:18

And he would just laugh, and it was like the cutest thing.

Michelle 00:31:23

And so we were using a lot of sign language with him.

Michelle 00:31:28

And so we would go more, more, more.

Michelle 00:31:32

And at one point, after about 10 times, at least, we would look at him and he would.

Michelle 00:31:39

More.

Michelle 00:31:40

And so we just kept throwing him on the.

Michelle 00:31:43

On the bed.

Michelle 00:31:44

And that was.

Michelle 00:31:45

That's one of my most favorite moments.

Michelle 00:31:49

You celebrate those moments.

Michelle 00:31:51

And so.

Michelle 00:31:52

And even if it is you're the dad throwing a kid on top of the bed with a bunch of pillows, you know, it is celebration time.

Michelle 00:32:03

And seeing that, I feel like some of the moms can relate to what we were going through at that moment.

Mark Taylor 00:32:11

Yeah, yeah, it's a.

Mark Taylor 00:32:12

It's a lovely image.

Mark Taylor 00:32:13

And like, say it can come at any point and.

Mark Taylor 00:32:16

But to.

Mark Taylor 00:32:17

To be able to witness it and like saying to be lucky enough to actually have it captured as well, like I say, because that must literally be sort of a pinpoint moment in time, but also for everything that's come since then in a positive manner.

Mark Taylor 00:32:29

So, yeah, I absolutely love that.

Mark Taylor 00:32:32

So the acronym FIRE is important for us, obviously, here at Education on Fire.

Mark Taylor 00:32:38

And by that we mean feedback, inspiration, resilience, and empowerment.

Mark Taylor 00:32:43

What is it that strikes you of any one of those words or anything that sort of.

Mark Taylor 00:32:47

Sort of hits you from seeing that resilience?

Michelle 00:32:53

Because you have to be resilient with these kids.

Michelle 00:32:57

And I think empowerment, too.

Michelle 00:33:00

You have to empower yourself to be that advocate for your kids.

Michelle 00:33:05

So, I mean, I love that acronym, the fire.

Michelle 00:33:09

I love it, everything about it, because you have to have feedback.

Michelle 00:33:12

You have to be inspired to do it, even when you're not wanting to do it.

Michelle 00:33:18

And you have to be resilient to deal with those complex kids.

Michelle 00:33:22

And really, my whole entire Thrive program is to empower these moms to become their kids, their sons, their daughters.

Michelle 00:33:35

Best advocate.

Michelle 00:33:36

So I love the word empowerment.

Mark Taylor 00:33:39

Fantastic.

Mark Taylor 00:33:40

And just one final thing I was curious that I sort of saw on everything that you're doing was that idea from of confusion to clarity.

Mark Taylor 00:33:49

Can you just sort of talk to me about that a little bit?

Mark Taylor 00:33:51

Because I thought that really struck me as something which it seems obvious when you read it or when you come across it, but I'm sure that's the confusing thing when you're in the midst of everything.

Michelle 00:34:04

So the reason why I use that is because I remember being in this cloud of not knowing what I was doing.

Michelle 00:34:16

And, you know, when you.

Michelle 00:34:18

When you have kids, you have certain expectations, right?

Michelle 00:34:23

Like when you're pregnant and you have the baby and you know you have to.

Michelle 00:34:29

You want them to become something.

Michelle 00:34:30

You kind of have that picture of a child growing up, going to soccer games, doing, you know, basketball games, and be becoming a doctor or whatever, whatever it is that you have that in your mind as a parent.

Michelle 00:34:48

And when things start not going that way, you.

Michelle 00:34:55

You get.

Michelle 00:34:56

It's this cloud around you, what is happening, what is going on.

Michelle 00:35:02

And what I help people see is that there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

Michelle 00:35:09

And there is a way for you to feel empowered enough and to find.

Michelle 00:35:17

Because when you.

Michelle 00:35:18

When you know what you need to do, you find that clarity to know that you're doing the right thing at the right time.

Michelle 00:35:30

And you might need to change a little bit of those expectations.

Michelle 00:35:34

And the expectations are going to have to change.

Michelle 00:35:37

I think it changes even for the typical kids, but with the complex kids, it's.

Michelle 00:35:42

It's changing those type of expectations and having that clarity that it's going to be okay.

Mark Taylor 00:35:48

I love that.

Mark Taylor 00:35:48

What a great place to.

Mark Taylor 00:35:50

To finish off.

Mark Taylor 00:35:50

I think the idea of education immediately for so many people is just school and the world that the majority of us know was the case.

Mark Taylor 00:35:58

But learning and education and the, the world that you've expressed and you've been able to explain to us here, I think is a really important one and a really supportive one for everything, everything that you've done.

Mark Taylor 00:36:10

So, Michelle, thank you so much indeed.

Mark Taylor 00:36:11

Just remind everyone again of where they need to go to find out more and to get involved if it's something which is going to be helpful for them.

Michelle 00:36:20

Sure.

Michelle 00:36:20

You can go to my website, which is wisdom number four, Complex Kids.

Michelle 00:36:25

And you can also go to Thrive for Parenting with neurodivergent Kids.

Michelle 00:36:32

It's on Facebook.

Michelle 00:36:34

Find me.

Michelle 00:36:35

And you just have to answer a few questions and then I'll let you into my, my private group and it will be awesome to have you there.

Michelle 00:36:43

I look forward to having more parents join the community and help us be better parents for our complex kids.

Mark Taylor 00:36:54

Fantastic.

Mark Taylor 00:36:55

Michelle, thank you so much.

Mark Taylor 00:36:56

Indeed.

Mark Taylor 00:36:56

I really appreciate it.

Michelle 00:36:59

Thank you, Mark.

Mark Taylor 00:37:01

Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire.