How to Love Teaching Despite the Challenges: Insights from Renès Lophanor

Renes Lofenor 00:00:00

Last year, for example, 40,000 teachers left the profession in the UK alone and in France there were about 25,000.

Renes Lofenor 00:00:12

And that's something that is global, I would say mainly in the.

Renes Lofenor 00:00:16

In the Western countries.

Renes Lofenor 00:00:19

One of the main strategies that I use is to build a personal relationship with the students and to have mutual respect towards them and to treat them like a human being rather than like a student by finding the words, the right words, the right way to explain to someone what you know.

Renes Lofenor 00:00:44

That in itself is another skill.

Renes Lofenor 00:00:47

My goal is to be the teacher that I wish I had when I was at school.

Renes Lofenor 00:00:54

The reason why I enjoy teaching still is because when I walk out the school building, I leave everything behind.

Renes Lofenor 00:01:06

I leave the school life behind me.

Renes Lofenor 00:01:08

I am now in my new life, hobbies, family time, etc.

Renes Lofenor 00:01:13

I had to change my mindset and tell myself the school is my job, my profession.

Renes Lofenor 00:01:20

Okay?

Renes Lofenor 00:01:21

My real life is outside the school, so I need to live.

Mark Taylor 00:01:27

Hello, welcome back to the Education on Far podcast.

Mark Taylor 00:01:29

That was Renes Lofenor and he's got a book out called I Still Love Teaching despite having all the Reasons in the World to Quit.

Mark Taylor 00:01:36

We have a great conversation about his experience, why he wrote the book, some amazing takeaways from it, and a big thank you to the national association for Primary Education for their continued support and sponsorship of this show.

Mark Taylor 00:01:46

Really hope you enjoyed this conversation.

Mark Taylor 00:01:50

Hello, my name is Mark Taylor and welcome to the Education on Fire podcast, the place for creative and inspiring learning from around the world.

Mark Taylor 00:02:04

Listen to teachers, parents and mentors share how they are supporting children to live their best, authentic life and are proving to be a guiding light to us all.

Mark Taylor 00:02:12

Hi Renez, thank you so much for joining us here on the Education on Fire podcast.

Mark Taylor 00:02:16

It's always great to chat to someone who's got a really diverse educational background from a professional point of view as well as a sort of a learning point of view as well.

Mark Taylor 00:02:24

And might be great to sort of hear about all those things, but I think most importantly for me, this idea of people getting disillusioned with the education system.

Mark Taylor 00:02:33

But then do you get out?

Mark Taylor 00:02:35

Do you stay?

Mark Taylor 00:02:36

What is it that you do?

Mark Taylor 00:02:37

And I think our conversation is going to be so supportive for all those people who are especially maybe on that cusp.

Mark Taylor 00:02:42

So yeah, so thanks so much for being here today.

Renes Lofenor 00:02:44

My pleasure.

Renes Lofenor 00:02:44

Thank you very much, Mark, for having me on your show today and it will be my pleasure to share my insights and with your audience and hopefully they will find something to take away and help them in.

Renes Lofenor 00:03:01

In the life, not necessarily in the Deed in the education world, but in the life in general.

Mark Taylor 00:03:08

Yeah.

Mark Taylor 00:03:09

Fantastic.

Mark Taylor 00:03:10

So why don't we start with that kind of background that you have?

Mark Taylor 00:03:13

Because it's multi countries, it's studying in different countries, it's sort of, kind of all that culture and upbringing must give you a really unique sort of idea of what life's about, not just what education is about.

Renes Lofenor 00:03:27

Absolutely.

Renes Lofenor 00:03:29

I was born in Haiti and for those who don't know about this place, it's an island located in the Caribbean about 60 miles away from Cuba.

Renes Lofenor 00:03:39

Everyone knows Cuba and Dominican Republic.

Renes Lofenor 00:03:42

It shares the island with Dominican Republic.

Renes Lofenor 00:03:44

And so I lived in Haiti until I was around 10 years old and then I moved to Paris where I continued my studies up to university.

Renes Lofenor 00:04:00

After uni, I came to England where I did teacher training, the pgc.

Renes Lofenor 00:04:09

And I've become now a qualified teacher for the last 22 years and I am still loving teaching.

Mark Taylor 00:04:22

Fantastic.

Mark Taylor 00:04:22

And that way that we should jump in into your book from there just because there's so much there about the fact I love your enthusiasm and the fact like you say you're still loving teaching.

Mark Taylor 00:04:33

And the essence of the book is like, despite all the reasons why maybe you could quit, should quit, understand what that element's like.

Mark Taylor 00:04:42

So take us into the starting point of that and in essence what you trying to get across to it.

Renes Lofenor 00:04:49

When I started writing this book, actually the book I wanted to write was my autobiography, believe it or not.

Renes Lofenor 00:04:59

But with being in my mid-40s, I thought that could be a bit presumptuous to write my autobiography at such a young age.

Renes Lofenor 00:05:11

So let's leave that for later.

Renes Lofenor 00:05:14

And then I started talking to people a lot about the education system, what I like about it, what I don't like about it, what I would change if I were part of the policymakers.

Renes Lofenor 00:05:33

And then I decided to write the book to, to pinpoint those, those things.

Renes Lofenor 00:05:41

But I wanted to focus on the positive side of things because every time someone is talking about teaching in general, they always go for the negative side of it.

Renes Lofenor 00:05:54

And I'm not blaming them because it's, it is in, it's.

Renes Lofenor 00:05:59

It is in human nature to, to emphasize what is negative rather than the positive.

Renes Lofenor 00:06:07

So I decided to take things the other way around and focus on the positive.

Renes Lofenor 00:06:14

So because I still love teaching and I've noticed that, let's say last year, for example, 40,000 teachers left the profession in the UK alone and in France there were about 25,000.

Renes Lofenor 00:06:33

And that's something that is global, I would say mainly in the, in the Western countries and in the United States don't even need to mention that.

Renes Lofenor 00:06:45

So I wanted to give.

Renes Lofenor 00:06:51

Share some insights on what I do, which has helped me to maintain my passion for the profession despite all the challenges that we teachers are facing on a daily basis in the classroom or in the school altogether.

Mark Taylor 00:07:13

And yeah, I mean, it's amazing and we're going to jump into what those, what those reasons are.

Mark Taylor 00:07:18

But I just wanted at this point just to say this is what I love so much about the podcast is because this is the reason the podcast was created.

Mark Taylor 00:07:25

I was going into lots of schools doing music workshops and I was seeing so many people in staff rooms literally banging their heads against a brick wall saying, I got into it because this was my dream and this is what I wanted to do.

Mark Taylor 00:07:38

But because of all the reasons I'm sure we may cover, they were like, it's, it's really difficult.

Mark Taylor 00:07:43

And I was in the privileged position of being able to say, but I know the school down the road or in this county or this part of the country, this was happening.

Mark Taylor 00:07:52

Either it was a charity providing something or it was a way of teaching or it was something maybe they hadn't thought about.

Mark Taylor 00:07:58

And I thought if I can a conversation with them about that, maybe it's going to make a difference.

Mark Taylor 00:08:03

And I think today it's almost like we're sort of 400 odd episodes into the show now and it's like you're going to encapsulate all of this in one go, which is why I think it's absolutely fantastic.

Renes Lofenor 00:08:12

So I'll do my best.

Mark Taylor 00:08:13

Please do take us into, into, into those reasons and what you've learned.

Renes Lofenor 00:08:18

Okay.

Renes Lofenor 00:08:20

The main reason that comes, that comes to mind when, when you ask a teacher what they think of the, the profession is the behavior issues that they have with, in the classroom with the students.

Renes Lofenor 00:08:35

And what makes it difficult for my colleagues, for teachers in general, is the fact that you don't always have the necessary support that you would need from the senior leadership in order to say to, to solve the problem.

Renes Lofenor 00:09:01

And, but that's, that's one, one reason and I will tell you in a bit how I managed to, to mitigate that in my, my own teaching, my own classroom and other.

Renes Lofenor 00:09:13

Other reason is the, the lack of the.

Renes Lofenor 00:09:17

No.

Renes Lofenor 00:09:17

The increase, the increase of admin.

Renes Lofenor 00:09:21

Admin.

Renes Lofenor 00:09:22

Administrative staff put upon the shoulder of teachers and the excess of testing assessment every two, three weeks and data processing and all that for the salary is not that great.

Renes Lofenor 00:09:45

It's not that great.

Renes Lofenor 00:09:46

And compared to what people who have the same level of education to a teacher would get elsewhere.

Renes Lofenor 00:09:54

So for the most of it, for someone to decide to remain in the teaching profession, it's more than for the money, because if it was just for that, I don't think we would have many teachers left.

Renes Lofenor 00:10:12

And that's one of the reasons anyway that a lot of them are fleeing.

Renes Lofenor 00:10:17

And if I'm still here, that's because my passion for.

Renes Lofenor 00:10:21

For it is still higher than my need for.

Renes Lofenor 00:10:28

For my financial need, even though obviously I would definitely prefer to be paid to the real value of my.

Renes Lofenor 00:10:40

Of.

Renes Lofenor 00:10:40

Of my skills.

Mark Taylor 00:10:41

Exactly.

Mark Taylor 00:10:42

You know, you're not going to, you're not going to turn it away should it.

Mark Taylor 00:10:44

Should it arrive.

Renes Lofenor 00:10:45

Exactly, Exactly.

Renes Lofenor 00:10:46

Especially after 22 years of experience.

Mark Taylor 00:10:48

Y.

Renes Lofenor 00:10:49

And yeah, I said earlier I was going to explain how I deal with the.

Renes Lofenor 00:10:56

With behavior issue in my.

Renes Lofenor 00:10:58

In my lessons.

Renes Lofenor 00:10:59

One of the main reason, reason or strategies that I use is to build a personal relationship with the students and to have mutual respect towards them and to treat them like a human being rather than like a student.

Renes Lofenor 00:11:21

And by doing so, they will see you first as a human being as well before they see you as a teacher.

Renes Lofenor 00:11:31

The problem I see with students, and I remember from my childhood when I was at school, is the teachers that we saw as teachers were for us unreachable.

Renes Lofenor 00:11:45

They were not approachable and therefore there were not people we were looking up to as role models.

Renes Lofenor 00:11:54

Whereas those who were approachable, friendly, and it was easy to approach them, to ask for help, and therefore we respected them more than those who put for the status of teacher.

Renes Lofenor 00:12:19

And that's.

Mark Taylor 00:12:20

Yeah, yeah, it makes a lot of sense.

Mark Taylor 00:12:22

And I think for me, often it's that idea of we often start with, it should be like this.

Mark Taylor 00:12:29

So, you know, we'd hope that students come in and you'd have the respect, the discipline would be there, you'd have a culture where everyone wants to learn.

Mark Taylor 00:12:36

But maybe that's not the case.

Mark Taylor 00:12:37

And like you say, you'll have more experience of this than me.

Mark Taylor 00:12:40

You know, maybe that is something which is becoming more and more of an issue.

Mark Taylor 00:12:44

But if your starting point is, is that despite all of that, what I'm trying to do is, as you've explained, is about creating these relationships, understanding what's going on, then it's a much easier starting point.

Mark Taylor 00:12:55

Even if the situation may well be different, what you're trying to do and how you're going about it immediately has a different framework.

Renes Lofenor 00:13:02

Yeah.

Renes Lofenor 00:13:03

At the beginning of my lessons in, in September, with all my New classes.

Renes Lofenor 00:13:09

The first thing I make sure I do is to learn everyone's name, everyone's first name during that hour that I have with them.

Renes Lofenor 00:13:18

So that at the end of the lesson, as I'm dismissing them, I stand by the door and each of them will pass and I say, au revoir, so and so.

Renes Lofenor 00:13:27

Au revoir, Caroline.

Renes Lofenor 00:13:28

Au revoir, Paul, or Adios, Jardine, depending on the language I'm teaching them.

Renes Lofenor 00:13:36

And at the end of that lesson, they are so impressed that I remember all.

Renes Lofenor 00:13:43

I remembered all the names, that they see me as the teacher who knew their name.

Renes Lofenor 00:13:50

And by knowing their names, and you call them by the names in the corridor, on the playground.

Renes Lofenor 00:13:56

I mean, they, they, for them, you have noticed them.

Renes Lofenor 00:14:00

You.

Renes Lofenor 00:14:00

It's, it's.

Renes Lofenor 00:14:01

It's like you value them as a person and, and that means a lot to them.

Mark Taylor 00:14:08

I think that's.

Mark Taylor 00:14:09

It's really important, isn't it?

Mark Taylor 00:14:10

And just take us into.

Mark Taylor 00:14:11

People have got a picture in terms of the subjects you teach in the sorts of age group that you're teaching.

Renes Lofenor 00:14:16

Yeah, I teach German.

Renes Lofenor 00:14:19

Sorry, I have taught German, French in my first few years of teaching, but nowadays I teach Spanish, French and music.

Mark Taylor 00:14:32

Fantastic.

Mark Taylor 00:14:32

And anybody who's doing music in school gets my vote for absolutely everything because I know how important it is.

Mark Taylor 00:14:39

Having been given the opportunity at school and became a professional musician and still have the chance to sort of share that passion.

Mark Taylor 00:14:45

It's something which is so important and so often gets pushed to one side.

Mark Taylor 00:14:50

So I can imagine not only doing it, is it important, but having someone who's really enthusiastic about the students as well.

Mark Taylor 00:14:57

That's.

Mark Taylor 00:14:57

That's a great way of being.

Renes Lofenor 00:14:59

But I do prefer teaching languages, though.

Renes Lofenor 00:15:02

Music.

Renes Lofenor 00:15:03

I love playing music.

Renes Lofenor 00:15:04

There's.

Renes Lofenor 00:15:04

There's no doubt about it.

Renes Lofenor 00:15:05

And I do use music in my classroom.

Renes Lofenor 00:15:08

I have a guitar right behind my desk and which I use occasionally.

Renes Lofenor 00:15:13

But I find more joy in teaching languages.

Mark Taylor 00:15:19

And so take us into.

Mark Taylor 00:15:21

You said that the second part of all this was kind of the administration and all of that kind of thing.

Mark Taylor 00:15:25

How do you.

Mark Taylor 00:15:26

I'm sure there'd be everyone thinking, where does the joy come from?

Mark Taylor 00:15:29

Doing more and more admins.

Mark Taylor 00:15:30

I'm interested in terms of where that focus comes.

Renes Lofenor 00:15:34

I have absolutely no joy in that in the admin part.

Renes Lofenor 00:15:39

And for me, I can say now, if I am to leave teaching or at least in school, that would be probably the first reason why I would leave.

Renes Lofenor 00:15:54

And there are far too many tests and just most of the time it's for the sake of having some Data to tick the box, because in the underground, you don't really see the real benefit of them to the kids.

Renes Lofenor 00:16:19

Personally, I would rather spend that hour of testing to teach the students new things or to consolidate what they did not grasp fully.

Renes Lofenor 00:16:32

And to me, that would be a much more valuable way to use that time.

Renes Lofenor 00:16:41

And so regarding test, I try to be, let's say, different in the way I conduct my testing.

Renes Lofenor 00:16:56

For example, we regularly test students on learning vocab tests, sorry, vocab list and grammar points, etc.

Renes Lofenor 00:17:11

And what I like to do is to use what I call the power of collaboration.

Renes Lofenor 00:17:17

And I mentioned that in the book because that's something that I really value.

Renes Lofenor 00:17:23

And I said to my students, when you leave school, as soon as you leave school, you will not be working on your own.

Renes Lofenor 00:17:30

You will be working with other people.

Renes Lofenor 00:17:32

You will have colleagues, you will have a boss, you will have relative friends, you will be working in an office, but with other people.

Renes Lofenor 00:17:40

You will not be expected to do anything on your own as such.

Renes Lofenor 00:17:44

And it will always be part of a team.

Renes Lofenor 00:17:47

Yet in the classroom, they want students to be on their own.

Renes Lofenor 00:17:54

They are not allowed to chat to their peers right next to them.

Renes Lofenor 00:18:01

Any test they do, it has to be on their own, individual.

Renes Lofenor 00:18:04

And so I, I try to add the collaboration in the testing process.

Renes Lofenor 00:18:11

So what I do, when we do a test, an assessment, obviously not the formal one, the formal one, unfortunately, they have to do that on their own.

Renes Lofenor 00:18:22

But any others which are not formal, I let them do the test on their own first.

Renes Lofenor 00:18:29

I let them start at least.

Renes Lofenor 00:18:31

And then I said, okay, now you're going to collaborate.

Renes Lofenor 00:18:36

And some would ask, collaborate?

Renes Lofenor 00:18:38

What does that mean, sir?

Renes Lofenor 00:18:40

That means working together with someone and they are so surprised.

Renes Lofenor 00:18:46

It's a test, sir.

Renes Lofenor 00:18:48

Yes, I know, I know it's a test, but I am allowing you to work with the person next to you.

Renes Lofenor 00:18:55

However, there's a catch.

Renes Lofenor 00:18:59

Each mistake you make will count double.

Renes Lofenor 00:19:04

If you want to work on your own, that's fine, then each mistake will be worth one point.

Renes Lofenor 00:19:10

But if you decide to work together, which is fine, but each mistake counts for two points, what do you choose?

Renes Lofenor 00:19:18

What do you think they choose?

Renes Lofenor 00:19:20

They chose most of them, I would imagine.

Mark Taylor 00:19:23

Most of them wanted to collaborate.

Renes Lofenor 00:19:25

Exactly.

Renes Lofenor 00:19:26

And they, they all did, regardless the risk of losing more points, they still prefer the collaboration, which is a strength in human being.

Renes Lofenor 00:19:40

That's, that's how we manage to be the apex on this planet.

Renes Lofenor 00:19:44

It's through collaboration.

Renes Lofenor 00:19:46

And that's still what's happening in our society.

Renes Lofenor 00:19:50

It's working together, we succeed.

Renes Lofenor 00:19:53

So by trying to teach them that as early as in school, I'm hoping to prepare them more or better for, for the future, for the real life, I would say.

Mark Taylor 00:20:09

I absolutely love that.

Mark Taylor 00:20:10

And I think the ability to see the bigger picture within the confines of the system, as it were, I think is a really, really key thing because you bring your personality, your ideas, you're not taking away from anything, you're just adding within those, that structure.

Mark Taylor 00:20:26

And I think the collaboration thing is really interesting because I think the majority of people or certainly the thing that struck me to begin with was it's not that I think I'm going to get more points because they might know more.

Mark Taylor 00:20:38

It's more the fact that there's the odd thing, which I think I know, but I'd like that support with, or I'd like to just chat through just to clarify, to make sure.

Mark Taylor 00:20:47

And actually two plus two doesn't really make double, double the knowledge.

Mark Taylor 00:20:51

It actually makes more than that because I think you support each other to almost create a third person or a fourth person, which is, which is a fascinating thing.

Renes Lofenor 00:20:59

Yeah.

Renes Lofenor 00:21:00

And we tend to dismiss or disregard the fact that children learn much easier from other children.

Renes Lofenor 00:21:11

And so by allowing them to work together and I'm listening around how they are collaborating, how they're communicating, how one is trying to explain to another who doesn't understand the concept or a word.

Renes Lofenor 00:21:26

And I would step into support if need be or I would learn as well.

Renes Lofenor 00:21:30

Oh yeah, that's a good way to explain it that I didn't think of.

Renes Lofenor 00:21:38

So it's a win, win situation as far as I'm concerned.

Renes Lofenor 00:21:42

And to be honest, the fact that they took the courage to collaborate together despite the risk, most of the time I do count one mistake as one.

Mark Taylor 00:21:58

And when they're collaborating, is it their own liter, their own choice in terms of collaboration, in terms of who they want to collaborate with or do you have some kind of structure that kind of gives them that?

Renes Lofenor 00:22:09

It depends.

Renes Lofenor 00:22:10

Sometimes I let them decide who they want to collaborate to and sometimes I choose myself.

Renes Lofenor 00:22:17

For example, I would choose a student who is, let's say at the top level in the class, in the class, in the class, I would try to pair that students with the lowest in, in, in the lesson and they would still accept.

Renes Lofenor 00:22:40

They would still accept.

Renes Lofenor 00:22:42

And so yeah, it depends what I want to gain from them.

Renes Lofenor 00:22:47

And when, when I do that, it's because I want that student who, who understands things very well to use their skill to explain to Someone who really doesn't understand.

Renes Lofenor 00:23:00

Because by finding the words, the right words, the right way to explain to someone what you know, that in itself is another skill.

Renes Lofenor 00:23:13

So that I'm trying to make them develop as well.

Mark Taylor 00:23:17

It really is.

Mark Taylor 00:23:18

Because we can spend so much time in our own heads, as in, well, you know how this goes.

Mark Taylor 00:23:23

Or you must understand this, because I do.

Renes Lofenor 00:23:25

Yeah.

Mark Taylor 00:23:25

But like you say, to be able to get that out in a way which is clear and, and actually, sometimes even your thought processes are one or two steps ahead of actually what you need to do, because you might need to take it piece by piece as you're building these things up.

Mark Taylor 00:23:38

Like I said, it's such an incredible skill to develop and to not do it in collaboration class, which is.

Mark Taylor 00:23:44

So what's going.

Mark Taylor 00:23:45

Everything's gonna.

Mark Taylor 00:23:46

Class, everything's siloed in those ways to suddenly realize you can do it in any subject, in any way, as long as you have that environment.

Mark Taylor 00:23:52

Yeah, it's absolutely brilliant.

Renes Lofenor 00:23:54

There's one thing that I really love doing with my classes is during the doing an activity, I would ask everyone who understood the task, put your head up.

Renes Lofenor 00:24:08

And then I would see.

Renes Lofenor 00:24:09

I would see how many.

Renes Lofenor 00:24:11

Okay.

Renes Lofenor 00:24:11

I said, would you like to have a merit?

Renes Lofenor 00:24:15

A merit.

Renes Lofenor 00:24:16

So that's the reward we would give the class.

Renes Lofenor 00:24:20

Do you want a reward?

Mark Taylor 00:24:21

Yeah.

Renes Lofenor 00:24:21

Yes.

Renes Lofenor 00:24:22

Okay, this is what I'm gonna do.

Renes Lofenor 00:24:24

I'm going to walk outside the door.

Renes Lofenor 00:24:26

I'll stand outside the door for one minute.

Renes Lofenor 00:24:30

And all those of you who understand, you are going to explain to the rest of the class, make sure everyone understand.

Renes Lofenor 00:24:39

If everyone understands, then you will all get a reward.

Renes Lofenor 00:24:45

And those of you who have been explaining, you'll get an extraordinary.

Renes Lofenor 00:24:51

And then I would walk out with my timer and the class would be buzzing, buzzing away.

Mark Taylor 00:24:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Renes Lofenor 00:24:59

And you would see them going to the weakest students and trying to make sure they understand.

Renes Lofenor 00:25:04

Because when I come back, I will pick someone at random.

Renes Lofenor 00:25:08

And usually they know I would go for.

Renes Lofenor 00:25:11

I would tend to go for.

Renes Lofenor 00:25:12

For the weakest student.

Renes Lofenor 00:25:14

I don't always do that, but I'm.

Renes Lofenor 00:25:16

I let them know, make sure these people know because they might be the one I'm going to choose.

Renes Lofenor 00:25:23

And, and that's, that's.

Renes Lofenor 00:25:24

That's great for me.

Renes Lofenor 00:25:25

That's.

Renes Lofenor 00:25:26

It does my job in a way for me.

Renes Lofenor 00:25:30

And.

Renes Lofenor 00:25:30

But at the same time, they are enjoying it.

Renes Lofenor 00:25:33

They are finding the lesson pleasant.

Renes Lofenor 00:25:39

They don't see it as a lesson as such or as a traditional lesson where they just have to sit and listen to the Teacher.

Renes Lofenor 00:25:47

So as much as I can make a lesson, be interactive.

Renes Lofenor 00:25:52

I do.

Renes Lofenor 00:25:54

I do.

Renes Lofenor 00:25:54

And because that's what I wanted when I was myself a student.

Renes Lofenor 00:26:01

And like I said, my goal is to be the teacher that I want.

Renes Lofenor 00:26:06

I wish I had when I was at school.

Mark Taylor 00:26:09

Yeah.

Mark Taylor 00:26:10

Love it.

Mark Taylor 00:26:10

And I'm curious as to how that looks within your school and your colleagues.

Mark Taylor 00:26:15

Do people pick up on it?

Mark Taylor 00:26:17

Do you share these ideas?

Mark Taylor 00:26:18

Have other people started doing it as well?

Mark Taylor 00:26:20

Or is it like you say, it's your experience bringing that into just your classroom?

Renes Lofenor 00:26:25

I think that's more my experience.

Renes Lofenor 00:26:30

The thing is, it's.

Renes Lofenor 00:26:32

It's not always simple to, to implement someone else's methods or this kind of methods where the personality has to match.

Renes Lofenor 00:26:45

If, if you're, if you don't have the right personality to do that, it will, it will look fake and the students will not find the same interest in, in doing it.

Mark Taylor 00:27:01

And I think.

Renes Lofenor 00:27:02

Yeah, yeah.

Mark Taylor 00:27:03

And I think the bigger picture is important there as well, because I can understand that even if you sort of stood up and said, this is what I do in my class and this is why I do it.

Mark Taylor 00:27:12

And it works so well for me.

Renes Lofenor 00:27:14

Yeah.

Mark Taylor 00:27:14

I think without understanding where we started, which was the.

Mark Taylor 00:27:18

I want to get to know the children.

Mark Taylor 00:27:20

I want to really make sure we have a rapport and all of that kind of thing.

Mark Taylor 00:27:23

Without all of that, the rest of it doesn't work either.

Mark Taylor 00:27:26

So it's not just about doing A, B and C.

Mark Taylor 00:27:28

It's actually about knowing the whole Alphabet almost and putting.

Mark Taylor 00:27:32

And putting it in the round.

Mark Taylor 00:27:33

In order for that to be.

Mark Taylor 00:27:34

To give the environment for that to happen.

Renes Lofenor 00:27:36

And if I can make sure this.

Mark Taylor 00:27:39

Yeah.

Renes Lofenor 00:27:39

So connection.

Renes Lofenor 00:27:41

For me, that's the main thing for, for me to be.

Renes Lofenor 00:27:45

Still love teaching.

Renes Lofenor 00:27:47

I had to connect to my students from the very first lesson.

Renes Lofenor 00:27:53

And if not the first lesson, then the second lesson or until I can connect with them, I know I would not be able to teach them or they would not be able.

Renes Lofenor 00:28:04

They would not be willing to learn from me either.

Mark Taylor 00:28:07

Yeah.

Mark Taylor 00:28:07

And I think, and I think that's interesting from what you said about having the time instead of the testing, because, you know, if that hour meant that you understood that they had this hobby or a shared love of music or, or something like that, that connection is going to happen much quicker and they're going to gain much more because we, I think we all know that at that moment.

Mark Taylor 00:28:27

And like you say, with that relationship and then all the great learning that happens afterwards, their test scores would be higher, especially by the end of the year.

Mark Taylor 00:28:35

So actually there's so much benefit in that.

Mark Taylor 00:28:39

Yeah, absolutely.

Mark Taylor 00:28:40

Absolutely.

Mark Taylor 00:28:40

Really amazing.

Renes Lofenor 00:28:41

And you mentioned, you mentioned something about the students.

Renes Lofenor 00:28:46

Did you say, you said the students skills something now?

Mark Taylor 00:28:51

Yeah.

Mark Taylor 00:28:52

Their hobbies or their skill sets or their.

Renes Lofenor 00:28:54

Yes, yes.

Renes Lofenor 00:28:56

And that's, that's something that I take, I take into, into account in my teaching as well.

Renes Lofenor 00:29:03

I share my hobbies with them and, and they share theirs with me and I try to include things that are related to their hobbies in the lesson to make it more relevant to them and, and more in a way easier for them to learn because they know the topic, they, they can relate to it.

Renes Lofenor 00:29:29

So.

Mark Taylor 00:29:30

Yeah, yeah, it makes a lot of sense.

Mark Taylor 00:29:32

And I'm curious, in terms of your sort of longevity within the profession as well, is it the, the love of things that you've got outside of the job that really help as well?

Mark Taylor 00:29:42

You know, is a, is a music person as someone who loves creating arts and stories and I know that, you know, you haven't just decided as of now, I'm going to write a book.

Mark Taylor 00:29:51

It's been part of what you've been doing for a long time.

Mark Taylor 00:29:53

So talk about that kind of how you see the job sort of as part of your overall life as well.

Renes Lofenor 00:30:00

Bingo.

Renes Lofenor 00:30:01

You, you freely, you've nailed it.

Renes Lofenor 00:30:04

The reason why I enjoy teaching still is because when I walk out the school building, I leave everything behind.

Renes Lofenor 00:30:15

I leave the school life behind me.

Renes Lofenor 00:30:17

I am now in my new new life, hobbies, family time, etc.

Renes Lofenor 00:30:23

And because I'm able to, to disconnect from the school life, I can live the rest of my life fully.

Renes Lofenor 00:30:34

And, and therefore when I return to the school, it's fine.

Renes Lofenor 00:30:39

I am totally rejuvenated and full of energy and I can, I can go on.

Renes Lofenor 00:30:45

So yes, to, to maintain your hobbies outside of school, that's very important.

Renes Lofenor 00:30:53

I, I am a musician as well.

Renes Lofenor 00:30:56

I do gigs here and there regularly.

Renes Lofenor 00:31:00

And you're a musician as well, you say, right?

Renes Lofenor 00:31:02

Yes, and for me that's, that's very important.

Renes Lofenor 00:31:07

I do rock climbing now a bit less because of, of the writing that has been taking a lot of time and then some other things that I'm involved in, like I'm attending a finance course to educate myself in the world of finance.

Renes Lofenor 00:31:28

By the way, this is something as I'm learning about finance, I am teaching my tutor group about it as well because that's something that is lacking in schools.

Renes Lofenor 00:31:39

In the school system.

Renes Lofenor 00:31:41

It's the, the, the finance education to, to students who, as soon as they leave school will be dealing with credit cards, debit cards, loans, and yet they will have no knowledge, no prior knowledge about it.

Renes Lofenor 00:31:59

So I am trying to, to do my, my share.

Renes Lofenor 00:32:04

Like I said, there again to be the teacher that I wished.

Renes Lofenor 00:32:08

I wish I had in.

Renes Lofenor 00:32:12

Yeah.

Renes Lofenor 00:32:12

When I was in school.

Renes Lofenor 00:32:14

Yeah, yeah.

Renes Lofenor 00:32:16

My, my hobbies keep me, keep me strong.

Renes Lofenor 00:32:19

My family, my friends keep me.

Renes Lofenor 00:32:21

Yeah.

Renes Lofenor 00:32:22

Strong outside of school.

Mark Taylor 00:32:23

It's so important.

Mark Taylor 00:32:24

And finance is something which we've covered on occasions here on the show because there are, there are lots of very passionate people about that and it makes a lot of sense because with that framework in place, like you say, as you leave school, you're in a much better position to do whatever it is that you want to be.

Renes Lofenor 00:32:38

Yeah.

Mark Taylor 00:32:38

To be doing after that.

Mark Taylor 00:32:41

I know you said the hobbies are important, but there'll be people listening who, who completely agree with you.

Mark Taylor 00:32:47

I'd like to be walking out the school gates and then that's done.

Mark Taylor 00:32:50

I'm now in my next life.

Mark Taylor 00:32:52

But aren't able to do that.

Mark Taylor 00:32:53

Is that just something you've always been able to do?

Mark Taylor 00:32:55

Do you have certain skills, certain tactics that enable that to become a reality for you?

Renes Lofenor 00:33:03

If I have been able, or if I've always been able to do that, let's say I've always wanted to be able to do that.

Renes Lofenor 00:33:13

In my first year, let's say in my first year as a teacher, as a newly qualified teacher, I was dedicating a lot of my time to school, to marking, to planning lessons.

Renes Lofenor 00:33:29

I would stay in school until they close, until the caretaker closes the school at 6pm every day because I was enjoying, I was enjoying marking every single book, drawing some, some, some, some anime for.

Renes Lofenor 00:33:48

To.

Renes Lofenor 00:33:48

To cheer the students who did well and those who didn't do so well.

Renes Lofenor 00:33:53

I would draw a little version of that same anime to cheer them up.

Renes Lofenor 00:33:59

And they loved having my drawing in their book because they know that that's a sign that they have done well or they are on the path to doing well and planning.

Renes Lofenor 00:34:15

I would spend a lot of time planning my lessons, especially as a newly qualified teacher.

Renes Lofenor 00:34:20

I did not have the experience to plan fast.

Renes Lofenor 00:34:24

And also I wanted to.

Renes Lofenor 00:34:26

I don't know, I wanted to do well.

Renes Lofenor 00:34:27

I wanted to do so many things, so many things that I wanted my teachers to have done for me.

Renes Lofenor 00:34:36

So that took a lot of time.

Renes Lofenor 00:34:39

And I have spent some nights in the library or the computer room of the University of Southampton, but really the whole night I would go, I would go to the, to the computer room and let's say 6 7pm and I would work, would work, plan and tweak things, create PowerPoint and then when I check the time it's 6:30am and I would just go straight to school the next day and.

Renes Lofenor 00:35:17

But obviously that's, that wasn't sustainable.

Renes Lofenor 00:35:21

And it comes to a point where the body say hey mate, you have to, you know, take it easy.

Renes Lofenor 00:35:27

And so with the family as well, my wife and then when I got my first child, I had to restructure my life in a way to accommodate the family life and the school.

Renes Lofenor 00:35:48

So I learned to dedicate more time or less time to school in order to fill the rest of my life.

Renes Lofenor 00:36:02

And that was actually the best decision because it was healthier anyway.

Renes Lofenor 00:36:08

So I don't know if I did not have a family, if I would not if I would have done it or at least would have I done it as well?

Renes Lofenor 00:36:18

I don't know.

Renes Lofenor 00:36:19

But what I can say is that I have some friends who are single and they dedicate much more time to school than I do and obviously that has a, a negative impact on their mood as well.

Renes Lofenor 00:36:43

Yeah, they, they need to, to learn to disconnect like I have tried successfully done.

Renes Lofenor 00:36:53

And yeah, so no, I have not always managed to do that but now, now I can say I have, I've done it so well that that's.

Renes Lofenor 00:37:06

But I don't know how I could, how I could guide someone to do it themselves.

Renes Lofenor 00:37:18

All I can say is that I had to change my mindset and tell myself the school is my job, my profession.

Renes Lofenor 00:37:29

Okay, My, my what brings me my salary for me to pay to live.

Renes Lofenor 00:37:35

So my real life is outside the school, so I need to live.

Renes Lofenor 00:37:39

So therefore anything that you can do to please yourself, your hobbies, see your friends and study any other things that you want to, to, to become proficient at do, do.

Renes Lofenor 00:37:55

So do not let school take all of your life because at the end of the day it's gonna ruin your health and consequently your body as well and you will not be able to continue for long and you will want to quit.

Renes Lofenor 00:38:17

And yeah, so.

Mark Taylor 00:38:19

And I really think that there are a couple of things there that strike me.

Mark Taylor 00:38:23

One, I can identify with that I was a different person pre family than with family.

Mark Taylor 00:38:28

And it's an easy choice to start to make, isn't it?

Mark Taylor 00:38:31

In terms of I need this to work for this.

Mark Taylor 00:38:34

And also I think the fact that your career is also a journey because you are a different person when you're just graduated or you're starting a new job.

Mark Taylor 00:38:41

And that isn't to say that you, you should do it different from day one because there's something about the reps and like you said, the study and the planning that you did then, which puts you in good said for later on, that, you know, there's a certain amount of, of understanding and knowledge and experience that comes with it, which you can do when you're younger and maybe you need to in some way or another.

Mark Taylor 00:39:00

I can completely get that.

Mark Taylor 00:39:02

But I think what I love about our conversation today is the fact that I think everyone listening would go, but I want you as a teacher as you are now.

Mark Taylor 00:39:11

And you've created that because of, despite of all of those things, because of the positives of outside school, the way you want to be within school, because even just like them talking about it's a job and it has a salary from everything that you said in the first part of the show, what you bring to the classroom, in the school because of all of that is such a positive thing.

Mark Taylor 00:39:33

And like you say, it's really hard to do that if you've gone too far the other way and you're spending too much time about it.

Mark Taylor 00:39:38

And like I say, you're not rejuvenating yourself to have that perspective, I think, somewhere because it's not like you're trying to cut corners.

Mark Taylor 00:39:44

It's the fact that, you know, the bigger picture, you know, the system is the system.

Mark Taylor 00:39:48

You know what you have to do.

Mark Taylor 00:39:49

But, you know, the fact that your finance has taken you to have those conversations is a, Is a tutor.

Mark Taylor 00:39:54

The fact that, you know, understanding that the way people learn might be better as a collaboration, you know, it's just making all the difference.

Mark Taylor 00:40:02

And I think, I think that's why I love these conversations.

Mark Taylor 00:40:04

People just thinking, oh, I could just think of it in that way, or maybe I don't need to do this, I could do that, or whatever it is that's striking everybody.

Mark Taylor 00:40:12

We're all different.

Mark Taylor 00:40:12

But such a great thing to be.

Renes Lofenor 00:40:14

Able to hear, oh, no, that's.

Renes Lofenor 00:40:20

I mean, for me to say that I would love to be in my own class, as my own student, and it may sound pompous, but, I mean, at the end of the day, if you believe that what you're doing is right, it might not be right, but if you believe it's right, why not embrace it?

Renes Lofenor 00:40:52

And that's, that's, that's what I, I'm trying to do.

Renes Lofenor 00:40:55

And I.

Renes Lofenor 00:40:56

The feedback that I get from the students is telling me that I am doing it right as well.

Renes Lofenor 00:41:03

My.

Renes Lofenor 00:41:03

My colleagues as well.

Renes Lofenor 00:41:04

So, I mean, yeah, so I.

Renes Lofenor 00:41:09

I don't see.

Renes Lofenor 00:41:10

You know, usually when a student see the.

Renes Lofenor 00:41:13

The teachers in town, what is the first reflex?

Renes Lofenor 00:41:20

They run, they go and hide.

Renes Lofenor 00:41:22

What's for me, I say, hi, Mr.

Renes Lofenor 00:41:24

Fennel.

Renes Lofenor 00:41:25

Oh, hi.

Renes Lofenor 00:41:27

And they're with the parents.

Renes Lofenor 00:41:28

Usually you're with your parents.

Renes Lofenor 00:41:31

You see a teacher, you don't want your parents to see anything.

Renes Lofenor 00:41:35

But for me, no, they.

Renes Lofenor 00:41:37

They would come and greet me.

Renes Lofenor 00:41:40

And that means.

Renes Lofenor 00:41:41

That means a lot.

Renes Lofenor 00:41:42

So that.

Renes Lofenor 00:41:43

That's one of the things that make me believe that I am doing it right.

Renes Lofenor 00:41:48

And now, like I said, it might not be right, because at the end of the day, right is not.

Renes Lofenor 00:41:57

It's not universal.

Renes Lofenor 00:41:58

And it can be subjective for someone, and not for that, but at least for those students that I have, it seems to be right.

Mark Taylor 00:42:10

And I think.

Mark Taylor 00:42:11

I think the key takeaway is that it's right for you.

Mark Taylor 00:42:14

And so for someone else listening, there'll be elements of it that's right for them, but there's other elements of their personality and how they teach and how they learn and their experience which makes it right for them.

Mark Taylor 00:42:25

And, you know, often at this part of the show, we talk about an education experience or a teacher or some advice you want to share, but we've kind of talked about all of that within.

Mark Taylor 00:42:34

Within the element of the conversation, which I absolutely love.

Mark Taylor 00:42:36

And it's not always kind of, you know, Mr.

Mark Taylor 00:42:39

Smith, at this class, it's usually the things like you said, it's the fact that they understood me, they saw me, or the fact that I didn't get that experience.

Mark Taylor 00:42:46

So I want to bring that into my school.

Mark Taylor 00:42:48

You know, you shared the idea of the hobbies, the.

Mark Taylor 00:42:51

The idea of sort of putting in perspective all of that.

Mark Taylor 00:42:54

I think it's so key, and I think for that to be sort of amalgamated into the heart of what you're doing is.

Mark Taylor 00:42:59

Is such a really important thing.

Renes Lofenor 00:43:01

And, and you've said it at the beginning of my book.

Renes Lofenor 00:43:05

I have clearly written.

Renes Lofenor 00:43:07

This book is not intended to be a guide for.

Renes Lofenor 00:43:11

To tell you teachers how to do what to do, but only a testimony to show you how have.

Renes Lofenor 00:43:23

How I have done things.

Renes Lofenor 00:43:25

Sorry.

Renes Lofenor 00:43:26

And why it has worked for me the way I have done it.

Renes Lofenor 00:43:32

And that's all.

Renes Lofenor 00:43:33

So you can pick from it what you think would work for you and dismiss some of it or all of it if it doesn't.

Renes Lofenor 00:43:43

But at least I'm just sharing.

Renes Lofenor 00:43:45

I'm just offering you.

Renes Lofenor 00:43:46

That's what I've done.

Renes Lofenor 00:43:47

Now, you take it or you don't.

Mark Taylor 00:43:51

Use it in any way that you can.

Renes Lofenor 00:43:53

Yeah.

Mark Taylor 00:43:54

Fantastic.

Mark Taylor 00:43:55

And is there another resource that you'd like to share?

Mark Taylor 00:43:57

And this can be anything from a video, song, podcast, book, film.

Mark Taylor 00:44:01

But something has had an impact, whether it's personal or professional.

Renes Lofenor 00:44:05

Okay, well, there was one.

Renes Lofenor 00:44:07

Since we were talking about exams.

Renes Lofenor 00:44:10

There is a video.

Renes Lofenor 00:44:11

A video.

Renes Lofenor 00:44:12

It's called BE.

Renes Lofenor 00:44:15

Got the name Bobby McFerrin.

Renes Lofenor 00:44:18

Don't worry, BE Happy.

Renes Lofenor 00:44:19

That's it.

Renes Lofenor 00:44:20

Don't Worry, Be Happy, which I covered just like Bobby McFerrin did.

Renes Lofenor 00:44:26

So it's all with vocals, no instrument.

Renes Lofenor 00:44:29

And I recorded it last year and dedicated it to one of my year 11 class just before they sat the GCSE exam.

Renes Lofenor 00:44:39

And at the end of the song, I.

Renes Lofenor 00:44:45

I left a message for them which they really appreciated.

Renes Lofenor 00:44:50

And so, yeah, that's one I would love to share with you.

Renes Lofenor 00:44:56

It's called Don't Worry, Be Happy.

Renes Lofenor 00:45:00

It's on my YouTube channel, which is R E N E S B B W.

Renes Lofenor 00:45:06

I enjoy.

Mark Taylor 00:45:09

Great.

Mark Taylor 00:45:09

And we'll have links to these things on the show.

Mark Taylor 00:45:11

Notes and everything as well.

Mark Taylor 00:45:12

And I love that.

Mark Taylor 00:45:13

That sense of building up to an exam or all those things as well, because I very much share with my people, pupils, it's the sense that you've already done everything you can before you've got into the exam.

Mark Taylor 00:45:23

You don't know the result or how it's necessarily going to go.

Mark Taylor 00:45:27

But if you've done the work, you put the effort in, and certainly for music, if they've had the opportunity to share what they've done in a concert or something before you've done everything, you don't.

Mark Taylor 00:45:35

I don't need for you to get X, Y or Z in order for it to be a success or whatever you deem that success to be.

Mark Taylor 00:45:41

And I think like, say those con.

Mark Taylor 00:45:43

Constant conversations, the things that make a.

Mark Taylor 00:45:46

Make a difference with all of that sort of stuff.

Mark Taylor 00:45:49

So obviously the acronym FIRE is important to us here, Education on fire.

Mark Taylor 00:45:53

And we're talking about feedback, inspiration, resilience and empowerment.

Mark Taylor 00:45:58

What is it that strikes you when you hear that?

Renes Lofenor 00:46:01

Inspiration.

Renes Lofenor 00:46:03

Inspiration.

Renes Lofenor 00:46:04

Because for me, if you can inspire someone, not necessarily students, so because we're talking about education, so I would say student.

Renes Lofenor 00:46:15

But if you can inspire anyone, that person will be more likely to get on with the life and empower themselves, therefore becoming more resilient to deal with everything that.

Renes Lofenor 00:46:36

That.

Renes Lofenor 00:46:37

That they face in life.

Mark Taylor 00:46:39

Yeah, I love that.

Mark Taylor 00:46:40

Yeah.

Mark Taylor 00:46:41

They're also interconnected, aren't they?

Mark Taylor 00:46:43

In so many ways and I love the way people count one, one particular thing or the other.

Renes Lofenor 00:46:48

So I really love that, that, that acronym.

Renes Lofenor 00:46:52

It's really great.

Mark Taylor 00:46:53

I'm really pleased.

Mark Taylor 00:46:54

So, Venice, thank you so much for chatting about everything and do make sure everyone knows.

Mark Taylor 00:47:00

Tell us again the name of the book, where they can find it and any bits of final sort of parting wisdom for it.

Renes Lofenor 00:47:06

Okay.

Renes Lofenor 00:47:06

The name of the book, you can't forget it.

Renes Lofenor 00:47:09

I still love teaching despite having all the reasons in the world to quit.

Renes Lofenor 00:47:14

And my name, Vaness Le.

Renes Lofenor 00:47:17

Anyway, if you see that you can't get it wrong and it's available on the, on, on Amazon, on IngramSpark and, and in some, some libraries and shops, but for sure on Amazon you'll find it brilliant.

Mark Taylor 00:47:35

Thank you so much for your time today and sharing all of that with them.

Renes Lofenor 00:47:38

I really do appreciate.

Renes Lofenor 00:47:39

A pleasure.

Renes Lofenor 00:47:40

Thank you, Mark, very much for having me on your platform.

Mark Taylor 00:47:44

Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire.