Navigating Tough Conversations: Shelby Kretz on Talking Social Justice with Kids

Shelby Kretz 00:00:00

So many parents and teachers didn't know how to talk to their students or their young children about what they were hearing in the news.

Shelby Kretz 00:00:09

It's unlikely that you are an expert on every single topic, right?

Shelby Kretz 00:00:13

Disability justice, racial justice, gender justice, immigration justice.

Shelby Kretz 00:00:17

There are so many that we could go on.

Shelby Kretz 00:00:20

Bias starts ages 3, 4, 5 years old, right.

Shelby Kretz 00:00:24

So if kids aren't starting to get this kind of education until they're know, in high school or later, then those biases have already had a lot of time to develop.

Shelby Kretz 00:00:35

We recently switched to the digital model for a few reasons.

Shelby Kretz 00:00:38

One, to be able to reach international audiences and then, of course, to make it more affordable for educators.

Shelby Kretz 00:00:46

I want a teacher, you know, let's say they have an issue with racial slurs coming up in their classroom.

Shelby Kretz 00:00:51

Now they can come into our community and find resources.

Shelby Kretz 00:00:54

They don't have to wait for a box or they don't have to wait for us to cover that topic and they can get what they need.

Shelby Kretz 00:00:59

In this moment, we make so many of our resources free because I want everyone to do this work.

Shelby Kretz 00:01:06

She always used to say, like, we need more female PhDs.

Shelby Kretz 00:01:09

Like, we need more female PhDs.

Shelby Kretz 00:01:10

So really, really, really pushed me into that work.

Mark Taylor 00:01:14

Hello and welcome back to the Education on Far podcast.

Mark Taylor 00:01:17

That was Dr.

Mark Taylor 00:01:17

Shelby Kretz and she is the founder of Little Justice Leaders.

Mark Taylor 00:01:21

Now they have everything you need to talk about social justice, and I really hope you enjoy this convers.

Mark Taylor 00:01:26

My continued thanks to the national association for Primary Education for their support of the show.

Mark Taylor 00:01:31

Please check out everything they're doing related to their podcast, to the conferences and everything they're doing online.

Mark Taylor 00:01:36

It's nape.orguk that's nape.orguk.

Mark Taylor 00:01:43

hello, my name is Mark Taylor and welcome to the Education on Far podcast.

Mark Taylor 00:01:52

The place for creative and inspiring learning from around the world.

Mark Taylor 00:01:57

Listen to teachers, parents and mentors, share how they are supporting children to live their best authentic life and are proving to be a guiding light to us all.

Mark Taylor 00:02:05

Hi, Shelby, thank you so much for joining us here on the Education on Far podcast.

Mark Taylor 00:02:09

It's great to chat to people from around the world and also great for people doing something slightly different, but in a really positive way.

Mark Taylor 00:02:16

So, yeah, really looking forward to this conversation.

Mark Taylor 00:02:18

Thanks so much for joining us.

Shelby Kretz 00:02:20

Thank you so much for having me, Mark.

Shelby Kretz 00:02:21

I'm really excited for this conversation as well.

Mark Taylor 00:02:24

So take us straight into Little Justice Leaders.

Mark Taylor 00:02:27

Tell us sort of exactly what that is, first of all, and then we'll sort of reverse back into sort of how it all got going.

Shelby Kretz 00:02:33

Absolutely.

Shelby Kretz 00:02:34

So Little justice leaders.

Shelby Kretz 00:02:35

We help parents, caregivers, educators and schools talk to young students, so elementary school students about topics of social justice.

Shelby Kretz 00:02:46

And we do that through digital monthly membership for teachers and caregivers where they can access resources that are going to be age appropriate for elementary school schoolers.

Shelby Kretz 00:02:56

So we're talking about kids ages, let's say 4 to 11 or 12 years old.

Shelby Kretz 00:03:00

And we also have a school based program now that we're rolling out in schools that want to think about justice on a more systemic level.

Mark Taylor 00:03:08

And do you find that, I would imagine what the most important thing about this is, is the fact that even if people have this in their mind as something they feel is important and they're sort of trying to sort of offer it as part of the conversations that are going on.

Mark Taylor 00:03:21

Like I say, in those sort of different settings, it's hard to do unless you have some kind of idea of what you're going to do, how you're going to say it.

Mark Taylor 00:03:28

Like you say, having those resources and that support network around, and I guess that's really where you sort of come into your own.

Shelby Kretz 00:03:34

Exactly, exactly.

Shelby Kretz 00:03:35

I mean, this is really hard to do for, for kind of a couple of main reasons.

Shelby Kretz 00:03:39

I think the first is we're talking about young kids, right?

Shelby Kretz 00:03:42

It's then these are complex issues.

Shelby Kretz 00:03:44

So just understanding how do we make something that feels so big and sometimes scary, you know, and break that down for a five year old or a six year old or a seven year.

Shelby Kretz 00:03:55

That's challenge number one.

Shelby Kretz 00:03:57

Challenge number two is staying up to date on all of these issues.

Shelby Kretz 00:03:59

Right.

Shelby Kretz 00:04:00

There are so many issues of justice in our world.

Shelby Kretz 00:04:04

And even if, let's say, maybe you're very passionate about environmental sustainability or you're involved in movements of the LGBTQ community, it's unlikely that you are an expert on every single topic.

Shelby Kretz 00:04:17

Disability justice, racial justice, gender justice, immigration justice.

Shelby Kretz 00:04:22

There are so many that we could go on for parents and teachers to stay up to date on all those topics in addition to everything else that they're doing, and then be able to break them down, for young kids, it's just a lot.

Shelby Kretz 00:04:35

It's really hard.

Shelby Kretz 00:04:35

So that's why we want to, you know, make this easier for folks.

Mark Taylor 00:04:39

And it just sort of struck me there that you can think about this and talk about this in general terms, but I suppose there's a certain legality as well about certain terminology and certain ways that you need to approach certain areas like, say, which are always changing, but also they are quite important to make sure that you have that Terminology.

Mark Taylor 00:04:56

And you're actually discussing it in the right way.

Shelby Kretz 00:04:59

Absolutely.

Shelby Kretz 00:05:00

So, I mean, I think there's that, that, that's part of really staying up to date on, on what's going on in the movements because our language is always changing how we talk about these things, and then, you know, shifting to not only how do we talk about these topics as adults, but now how do we bring these topics to kids?

Shelby Kretz 00:05:17

So there's just kind of a lot of moving parts and factors to, to think about and stay up to date on.

Shelby Kretz 00:05:22

And it's not realistic for, for most folks to really be able to, to keep up with the changing language, the changing kind in social justice.

Mark Taylor 00:05:33

So where did this passion come from for you so specifically?

Mark Taylor 00:05:36

And then how did you kind of bring that into wanting to do it for this age group and been able to support people in that way?

Shelby Kretz 00:05:43

Yeah, so my background is all in education, so I've worked in after school programming.

Shelby Kretz 00:05:48

I was a school counselor, and then I went back to school to work on my PhD in education at UCLA.

Shelby Kretz 00:05:54

And I'm based in the US so around that time was the 2016 election when Trump was first elected president in the US and one thing I was hearing around that election cycle was just that so many parents and teachers didn't know how to talk to their students or their young children about what they were hearing in the news.

Shelby Kretz 00:06:16

So whether that was, you know, sometimes xenophobic or misogynistic comments or, you know, just in general kind of the rhetoric around that time period, that was in the news and social media.

Shelby Kretz 00:06:28

And so a lot of them just weren't having the conversation.

Shelby Kretz 00:06:31

And that really concerned me because I knew that kids, kids are hearing about these things.

Shelby Kretz 00:06:36

Right.

Shelby Kretz 00:06:36

Whether they hear about them from us or from less trusted sources.

Shelby Kretz 00:06:40

And so that's what really kind of got me thinking.

Shelby Kretz 00:06:43

And then it was two years later in 2018, when I finally kind of had this idea of like, you know what, maybe I can put out resources.

Shelby Kretz 00:06:49

Because I realized this is really hard for folks and, you know, it's, it's really hard to find the right thing.

Shelby Kretz 00:06:57

So what if I start kind of offering them and seeing if, if people are interested?

Shelby Kretz 00:07:01

And I focused on elementary school because there was absolutely, I mean, almost nothing, next to nothing, especially back then for this age range.

Shelby Kretz 00:07:09

Right.

Shelby Kretz 00:07:10

We saw a lot when it came to, I shouldn't even say a lot.

Shelby Kretz 00:07:12

There were some when it came to middle school, high school, older students, some at the college level.

Shelby Kretz 00:07:18

But the reality is, we know bias starts ages 3, 4, 5 years old.

Shelby Kretz 00:07:23

Right.

Shelby Kretz 00:07:23

So if kids aren't starting to get this kind of education until they're, you know, in high school or later, then those biases have already had a lot of time to develop.

Mark Taylor 00:07:35

And you only know what you know, don't you like to say, when you're young, especially, whatever you hear, you sort of think about parents and people around that.

Mark Taylor 00:07:43

You at that immediate community.

Mark Taylor 00:07:45

So, which is why, you know, people grow up in so many different ways, because you sort of know what you think the world is before you sort of hear it from other places.

Mark Taylor 00:07:52

But like, say, when you have someone who's very influential, whether it's a president, whether it's someone in seemingly authority, whether they're a celebrity or something like that, it's very easy to think, well, that must be right, or this is the truth, because that person's got that kind of authority.

Mark Taylor 00:08:06

So I can see why it's been such an important part for you.

Shelby Kretz 00:08:10

Absolutely.

Shelby Kretz 00:08:11

I think that that's so important and just recognizing how young people have so much more access to media than they ever have before.

Shelby Kretz 00:08:18

Right.

Shelby Kretz 00:08:19

In the past, let's say 20 years ago, if you were a parent, you knew what your child was watching on tv, and that was pretty much the only source of media that they were taking, so you knew what they were seeing.

Shelby Kretz 00:08:31

Whereas now with social media, with YouTube, with so much access to the Internet, everywhere kids go, parents cannot.

Shelby Kretz 00:08:40

It's not reasonable in most cases for parents to keep track of everything that their child is seeing.

Shelby Kretz 00:08:46

So you might think you're shielding them from certain news or, you know, certain world events.

Shelby Kretz 00:08:51

But the reality is, if they have access to the Internet, it's likely that they're seeing more than we may realize.

Mark Taylor 00:08:58

And that certainly strikes a chord with me because like you say, one telly in the corner of the living room, which is probably where your mum or dad may well have been anyway, or even, I remember sort of slightly after that, even if you've got one in a different room, which is a family room of some description or whatever, like, say, you know exactly what's going on.

Mark Taylor 00:09:14

And certainly having sort of kids who've been through this sort of social media world, I think the one thing you notice is that there are certain boundaries you can put in place.

Mark Taylor 00:09:23

But even families that I know that have put serious boundaries in place, you're not with your kids all the time.

Mark Taylor 00:09:28

They're going to school, they're on their way to school, they're having a sleepover, so they're going to see it.

Mark Taylor 00:09:33

Like you said, they're going to be aware of these things and I think actually giving them the skills that they need to make those informed decisions and to understand that and even know that they shouldn't be watching something or would rather leave that alone or ask a question about it is a really positive way.

Mark Taylor 00:09:47

But I think it's the fearful side of that that you sort of think you want to keep them safe by keeping it out of sight, out of mind, but not necessarily the best way forward.

Shelby Kretz 00:09:56

Exactly.

Shelby Kretz 00:09:56

I mean, I wish we could, you know, shield kids from a lot of the world issues.

Shelby Kretz 00:10:01

I really wish we could, but it's not the reality of our society today.

Shelby Kretz 00:10:05

It's just simply not realistic.

Shelby Kretz 00:10:07

And so they're getting this information from somewhere.

Shelby Kretz 00:10:10

The question is, are they getting it from a trusted source, like a teacher or family member, or are they getting it from, you know, other 8 year olds at school or, you know, their 10 year old cousin or worse, you know, the media, like.

Shelby Kretz 00:10:24

Right, like YouTube, tick tock, Instagram.

Shelby Kretz 00:10:27

So you know, where are they getting the information?

Shelby Kretz 00:10:29

Because it's not a matter of if they're getting it anymore.

Mark Taylor 00:10:31

Yeah, whatever's popular at the time, as I say, just come.

Shelby Kretz 00:10:34

Yes, exactly.

Mark Taylor 00:10:36

So, so tell me, in terms of how you sort of put this together, did you sort of decide what you thought was going to be important and then people sort of gave you some feedback on that or did you get a collection of people first and then sort of see where it took you?

Mark Taylor 00:10:51

I'm sort of always sort of fascinated from that sort of members side as well as the sort of the content side as well.

Shelby Kretz 00:10:56

Yeah.

Shelby Kretz 00:10:56

So we actually started as a subscription box company, so we were sending physical boxes every month and each box would cover a different topic of social justice.

Shelby Kretz 00:11:07

We worked with folks who had lived, experience and expertise on that topic.

Shelby Kretz 00:11:12

So we were kind of always just chunking like, you know, we're talking about race and racism or we're talking about gender and we're talking about immigration.

Shelby Kretz 00:11:20

Right.

Shelby Kretz 00:11:23

We recently switched to the digital model for a few reasons.

Shelby Kretz 00:11:26

One, to be able to reach international audiences.

Shelby Kretz 00:11:29

Right.

Shelby Kretz 00:11:30

Who otherwise wouldn't be able to afford the international shipping.

Shelby Kretz 00:11:32

Of course.

Shelby Kretz 00:11:33

And then of course to make it more affordable for educators in general and to integrate the content more.

Shelby Kretz 00:11:40

Right.

Shelby Kretz 00:11:40

Because so we're not just talking about one issue at a time, but we're kind of talking about all the issues.

Shelby Kretz 00:11:45

So because we did it that way, we now had, you know, six years worth of curriculum, lesson plans and content that we're kind of able to put into the digital Community.

Shelby Kretz 00:11:54

So at this point, pretty much anything anyone's going to ask for, we probably have a resource for that.

Shelby Kretz 00:12:00

So our community, we didn't put everything in there just because it would be way too overwhelming.

Shelby Kretz 00:12:04

But, you know, if our community member, you know, comes and says, hey, I want like a lesson on disabilities for second graders, we can, we can probably find that and make that happen.

Shelby Kretz 00:12:15

So at this point we have so much content, which is great that, that we can access anything.

Shelby Kretz 00:12:21

But yeah, it's really been iterations over time.

Shelby Kretz 00:12:24

Right.

Shelby Kretz 00:12:24

Folks would request certain topics.

Shelby Kretz 00:12:26

A lot of our community members would request.

Shelby Kretz 00:12:28

Request topics.

Shelby Kretz 00:12:29

Or we'd have experts come to us and say, hey, you know what?

Shelby Kretz 00:12:32

No one's talking about, like, we need, we need to cover this topic.

Shelby Kretz 00:12:35

And then pretty much like everything in between, it was, it's very much been like collaborative with, with our community, whether those are, you know, our subscribers or just activists who we connect with on a regular basis.

Mark Taylor 00:12:47

Yeah, I really like that.

Mark Taylor 00:12:48

And I can see, I mean, we're sort of talking about the election and sort of presidential campaign over in America.

Mark Taylor 00:12:55

And it makes sense because you've got various issues that people are talking about.

Mark Taylor 00:12:59

And then that comes.

Mark Taylor 00:13:00

How does that look in your area, which is obviously going to be state by state.

Mark Taylor 00:13:04

And I think to be able to sort of see these things in the round and like I say, take pieces of hair and pieces of there to kind of give an overall view rather than today we're just talking about this is.

Mark Taylor 00:13:15

Is a much more realistic idea of what people are actually thinking as well as sort what they need to cover.

Shelby Kretz 00:13:20

Yes, exactly.

Shelby Kretz 00:13:21

Because I want a teacher, you know, let's say they have an issue with racial slurs coming up in their classroom now they can come into, you know, our community and find resources now.

Shelby Kretz 00:13:31

Right.

Shelby Kretz 00:13:31

They don't have to wait for a box or they don't have to wait for us to cover that topic and they can get what they need in this moment.

Shelby Kretz 00:13:37

I think that's really important, especially as we know around the world, teachers are navigating difficult conversations and questions and sometimes hateful language even coming up in the classroom.

Shelby Kretz 00:13:49

And, you know, having that supportive community and resources on how to deal with it, I think is really going to be important for folks.

Mark Taylor 00:13:56

And do you see overall themes of.

Mark Taylor 00:13:59

Of topics or certain areas that people are wanting to cover?

Mark Taylor 00:14:03

And like I say, with all those resources, I'm sure, like I say, you've covered everything.

Mark Taylor 00:14:06

But, but sort of.

Mark Taylor 00:14:06

Is it sort of a general kind of format that people are starting to show you and ask for.

Shelby Kretz 00:14:12

Yeah, I think some of two of the biggest ones, I would say actually three.

Shelby Kretz 00:14:17

Anti racism.

Shelby Kretz 00:14:18

I think that's a huge one.

Shelby Kretz 00:14:20

You know, teachers want to be really mindful of it, of course.

Shelby Kretz 00:14:23

And unfortunately, seeing a lot of racialized hate language in the classroom coming up more and more around the world, really, which is, you know, disheartening, but that, that makes it a topic that folks are really interested in kind of digging into with their little ones.

Shelby Kretz 00:14:40

The second one is LGBTQ identities.

Shelby Kretz 00:14:42

I think this is really controversial for a lot of folks and it can be very hard to understand.

Shelby Kretz 00:14:49

How do we introduce this in a way that's age appropriate?

Shelby Kretz 00:14:51

Right.

Shelby Kretz 00:14:52

Because I think some folks, you know, want to be able to kind of introduce that diversity, but aren't quite sure how to do it for certain age ranges.

Shelby Kretz 00:14:59

So that one's very popular and becoming more and more popular as well is religious diversity and understanding different religious points of view.

Shelby Kretz 00:15:07

A lot of folks, I think, are wanting their.

Shelby Kretz 00:15:09

Their little ones to understand different belief systems and of course, respect different belief systems.

Shelby Kretz 00:15:13

And so that one's becoming more and more pop too.

Mark Taylor 00:15:17

And I think for me, as I get older as well, you sort of forget the perspective of the young people in the world that they live.

Mark Taylor 00:15:24

I sort of think certainly for my kids, it's that kind of.

Mark Taylor 00:15:28

They don't know what it was like before the Internet.

Mark Taylor 00:15:30

They don't know what it was like before social media.

Mark Taylor 00:15:32

Whereas as you get older, you have that perspective of kind of as if you think you can have a conversation with that overall or that oversight of kind of.

Mark Taylor 00:15:41

Well, before this, this was like this, whatever.

Mark Taylor 00:15:43

But that's not what they know, it's not what they understand.

Mark Taylor 00:15:45

So I guess you have to sort of develop the courses and all the resource material in a different way, which I think is difficult as a grown up in inverted commas to understand.

Mark Taylor 00:15:57

And that's like you say you've got that real sort of insight and that professional background.

Shelby Kretz 00:16:01

Yeah, I mean, that's what we try to do.

Shelby Kretz 00:16:03

Right.

Shelby Kretz 00:16:03

It's always meeting them where they're at.

Shelby Kretz 00:16:05

I say that for the kids, of course, but that's true for the adults too.

Shelby Kretz 00:16:09

Right.

Shelby Kretz 00:16:10

Some of these issues are complicated.

Shelby Kretz 00:16:12

Folks don't always have the same ideas and opinions.

Shelby Kretz 00:16:15

And so it's really not about this is what to believe, but meeting people where they're at, being in conversation, being in community.

Shelby Kretz 00:16:22

And I think, you know, that's the case with our kids too.

Shelby Kretz 00:16:24

Just we may approach it a little differently.

Shelby Kretz 00:16:26

And when we think about you know, how do we connect with them given their worldview, given how they understand the world.

Mark Taylor 00:16:31

So take us into, into the difference between sort of how it first started.

Mark Taylor 00:16:36

Like you said, it's parents and caregivers and people that are doing it sort of in that individual way as opposed to like say the new sort of school program set up in.

Mark Taylor 00:16:44

Is it the same material just packaged differently or, or the way you go about it sort of give us a little bit of information about that.

Shelby Kretz 00:16:51

Yeah, so it's a lot of the same material in our school program, but in our schools program we're thinking kind of more holistically about a school culture.

Shelby Kretz 00:16:58

So the schools get a full preschool through sixth grade curriculum.

Shelby Kretz 00:17:04

So that's not accessible in our like individual program.

Shelby Kretz 00:17:07

So that's kind of the big thing for the schools is it's going to be a full curriculum that their teachers can follow preschool through grade six.

Shelby Kretz 00:17:14

So that's ages three through like for those in different parts of the world.

Shelby Kretz 00:17:18

But.

Shelby Kretz 00:17:20

And that is going to build on itself.

Shelby Kretz 00:17:22

Right.

Shelby Kretz 00:17:23

So when your student goes through the kindergarten curriculum and then they go into first grade, they're deepening their skills as they go year over year.

Shelby Kretz 00:17:30

The schools also get ongoing training.

Shelby Kretz 00:17:32

So every month their educators are going to get access to a new training module on social justice and education.

Shelby Kretz 00:17:39

So we're covering all different topics of whether that's how to support specific student groups like let's say, how to support your neurodivergent learners or how to support your trans and non binary learners or whether it's covering specific topics or just generally thinking about topics like how do I decolonize my classroom?

Shelby Kretz 00:17:56

Which is a training we're having this week.

Shelby Kretz 00:17:58

So lots of kind of different, different trainings there.

Shelby Kretz 00:18:02

And then they also get access to the community, which is what our individuals get as well.

Shelby Kretz 00:18:06

So that's, you know, resources, additional support and also connection to other educators who are doing this work.

Mark Taylor 00:18:11

Yeah, that I think the community makes a big difference.

Mark Taylor 00:18:14

Does it?

Mark Taylor 00:18:14

And I love that sort of essence that you're basically building an environment that teachers and schools and people can step into.

Mark Taylor 00:18:22

And I think having that kind of consistency over a number of years, I think it helps really sort of hone in the message that you're trying to do, even if the topics are different.

Mark Taylor 00:18:32

Because there must be a.

Mark Taylor 00:18:33

There's a way of understanding it and feeling it and kind of navigating it, which then feels very natural.

Mark Taylor 00:18:38

And then I think gives that sort of progression, like you say, as you're going through.

Shelby Kretz 00:18:42

Exactly, exactly.

Shelby Kretz 00:18:43

And that's the goal where they, they start to kind of understand more and more.

Shelby Kretz 00:18:47

They, and they understand the principles.

Shelby Kretz 00:18:49

Right.

Shelby Kretz 00:18:49

Like when I talk about social justice, I haven't talked about.

Shelby Kretz 00:18:52

There are some principles that we can talk about that apply to all the different issues because it can feel like, oh, there's so many things to cover, they're all different, so much to learn.

Shelby Kretz 00:19:01

But at the end of the day, like understanding the principles of how do we approach these issues, what are some of the core things that we're thinking about?

Shelby Kretz 00:19:08

And that I think can, can really help, you know, educators, and it helps students because they start to learn again, they learn themselves, the principles, maybe a different language, but that's kind of what they're, they're starting to get over the years.

Mark Taylor 00:19:20

And I really love the idea of community because I think you learn so much about, about people, but also about sort of the overall areas in the way that you're presenting it in your particular scenario.

Mark Taylor 00:19:33

It's a little bit like going to an in person conference, isn't it?

Mark Taylor 00:19:36

You sort of learn stuff in the workshops and all the talks and everything.

Mark Taylor 00:19:39

But it's the, it's the conversation you have in the lobby or in the bar or something which kind of you think, oh, there's a relationship here, there's someone I want to get to know here, or even find something that you would have never found out within the, the official part of it.

Mark Taylor 00:19:51

But it's sort of those things.

Mark Taylor 00:19:52

I'd imagine that's the same in sort of the virtual sense as well.

Shelby Kretz 00:19:56

Absolutely.

Shelby Kretz 00:19:56

I mean, that's always the goal.

Shelby Kretz 00:19:58

It's, it's difficult, of course, to get a virtual community, you know, really going and vibrant.

Shelby Kretz 00:20:04

So, so that's like always going to be a challenge.

Shelby Kretz 00:20:07

But that is what that space is for.

Shelby Kretz 00:20:09

So it's, you know, a teacher can come in and say, hey, I'm dealing with, you know, kids coming in and using RA slurs in my 4th grade classroom.

Shelby Kretz 00:20:18

Has anyone else dealt with this?

Shelby Kretz 00:20:19

What have you done?

Shelby Kretz 00:20:20

How do you handle it?

Shelby Kretz 00:20:21

Right.

Shelby Kretz 00:20:21

And then alongside that they can go get our resources on racial justice.

Shelby Kretz 00:20:25

Right.

Shelby Kretz 00:20:25

And they can start to incorporate those, or they can come in and say, hey, my first graders just got like really excited about climate justice and you know, does anyone have really good resources?

Shelby Kretz 00:20:34

Where do I start with this, with this grade level on this topic?

Shelby Kretz 00:20:37

And so it's just like this really great space where teachers and, and family members too can come in and connect and share resources, share advice, share support.

Shelby Kretz 00:20:46

Right.

Shelby Kretz 00:20:46

Sometimes it's just like, this is hard.

Shelby Kretz 00:20:49

I had a really uncomfortable situation come up because students, you know, we never know what's going to come out of their mouth, and I had no idea how to handle it.

Shelby Kretz 00:20:57

And then teachers can come in and say, yeah, hey, like, I've had something like that too.

Shelby Kretz 00:21:00

We all have stories like that.

Shelby Kretz 00:21:03

And so, yeah, I think that that space is really important for that, for that reason.

Shelby Kretz 00:21:07

And I hope it, you know, feels really, really helpful for, for our community.

Mark Taylor 00:21:12

And I think that understanding that even when you think you set yourself up in the best possible way, like I say, you signed up, you have all the resources, you' support network you need.

Mark Taylor 00:21:20

And then you get blindsided, like, say, by a comment or something, which you just weren't expecting.

Mark Taylor 00:21:26

And then, like I say, you either need a shoulder to cry on or like you say, or a question or just someone to say.

Mark Taylor 00:21:31

The reason that we're all here is because we, we get it and we understand it and we're going through the same, the same experience, even if it's a different particular situation.

Mark Taylor 00:21:40

And I think there's something very supportive about that where you feel like you've got a group of friends or a group of people who are living your world because there are loads of things out there that you can be part of.

Mark Taylor 00:21:51

But there's something very nice about feeling something which people are excited about delivering, but, like, say, also having their backs as well.

Shelby Kretz 00:21:58

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Shelby Kretz 00:21:59

I think it's especially important in this work.

Shelby Kretz 00:22:02

One of the, you know, things I always tell teachers from the start is, like, one thing you can count on is there will be times when you don't know what to say.

Shelby Kretz 00:22:12

Right?

Shelby Kretz 00:22:12

There will be times when a student asks a question and you don't know the answer.

Shelby Kretz 00:22:16

There will be times when something, something really uncomfortable happens in your classroom or where you handle something and later you realize you handled it all wrong.

Shelby Kretz 00:22:25

Like, all of those things will happen.

Shelby Kretz 00:22:28

And I try to tell teachers that from the start so, you know, they're not surprised when it does happen to them.

Shelby Kretz 00:22:34

And there's no preparing for every scenario that can come up.

Shelby Kretz 00:22:39

But it is, it is about, okay, I learned I'm going to do it better next time.

Shelby Kretz 00:22:43

I'm going to connect with my community and get support and be reminded that I'm not the only one going through this.

Shelby Kretz 00:22:48

And then I'm going to move forward and continue to, to do this work because it matters.

Shelby Kretz 00:22:52

And it's going to be uncomfortable and hard, but I care about this, so I'm going to keep doing it.

Mark Taylor 00:22:56

Right, Yeah, I love that because so often we often speak on the podcast about the fact that when you can have be on a learning journey together, then everyone benefits because there's so many positive things.

Mark Taylor 00:23:08

And I think people often think that about sort of the older years because it's like you can have a project based situation where even the students know more than you about a certain thing and you can learn and navigate and, and plan something in that way.

Mark Taylor 00:23:22

But some of the younger years, like I say, you're learning together but in a different type of way, you're sort of gathering that bit of information.

Mark Taylor 00:23:28

And like I say, that experience, no matter how long you've been doing it, you've never come across all the scenarios, all the questions, all the situations.

Mark Taylor 00:23:35

And so I think always feeling like you're on that learning journey together, whether it's related to the pupils directly or like you say, within that community, I think that then feels like you one, you've never reached the summit, which is always a good thing because that's the way you kind of develop as you go through.

Mark Taylor 00:23:50

But also knowing that, you know, today is a bad day, tomorrow is going to be a different day because I'm now better, in a better position to be able to move forward.

Shelby Kretz 00:23:57

Exactly, exactly.

Shelby Kretz 00:23:59

And really like that's the story of education, right?

Shelby Kretz 00:24:02

That's the story of being an educator.

Shelby Kretz 00:24:04

And so it's, you know, just applying that to another area because that's what it is when we're in front of, you know, 20 or 30 kids every day who are looking to learn from us.

Shelby Kretz 00:24:15

Right.

Shelby Kretz 00:24:15

Because we don't have all the answers every time.

Mark Taylor 00:24:18

Exactly.

Mark Taylor 00:24:18

First one to go, I don't have all the answers.

Mark Taylor 00:24:20

Let's start there and then we can work back.

Shelby Kretz 00:24:23

Right.

Mark Taylor 00:24:25

So for people who haven't been to the website, haven't seen what's available, can you sort of give us sort of a, just a quick snippet of kind of what they see when they arrive?

Mark Taylor 00:24:35

Wait list?

Mark Taylor 00:24:35

Do they go straight in?

Mark Taylor 00:24:37

What resources will they see immediately?

Mark Taylor 00:24:39

Just sort of a little bit of an overview you of that.

Shelby Kretz 00:24:41

Yeah, exactly.

Shelby Kretz 00:24:42

So to join our membership right now we're currently on a wait list, but I do think that we'll open back up soon.

Shelby Kretz 00:24:49

So when you get to our website, you'll have the opportunity to join the wait list.

Shelby Kretz 00:24:53

And once you join the actual membership, when you get in, you're going to find immediate access to resources, immediate access to the community, to our past training, some of the trainings that we've done recently and our upcoming ones.

Shelby Kretz 00:25:07

And you'll also see extended content from our social media for.

Shelby Kretz 00:25:11

So for those who follow our social media, we put out lots and lots of free content for teachers and parents and you're going to see even more of that in our community space or membership community.

Shelby Kretz 00:25:22

Now, that being said, like I said, we're on a wait list.

Shelby Kretz 00:25:24

So in the meantime, you can still access resources.

Shelby Kretz 00:25:27

We make them free.

Shelby Kretz 00:25:28

We make so many of our resources free because I want everyone to do this work.

Shelby Kretz 00:25:33

So the best way to do that is through our Instagram at Little Justice Leaders and then also by getting on our email list because we give out tons of free content there as well.

Shelby Kretz 00:25:41

So if you're excited to get started, do not be deterred by the wait list.

Shelby Kretz 00:25:45

You can definitely start getting resources today.

Mark Taylor 00:25:48

I love it.

Mark Taylor 00:25:49

And how, how does it work in terms of you've got a team of people doing all of this.

Mark Taylor 00:25:53

How do you sort of enjoy that kind of working within a team in terms of people that are developing the content, the people that are developing the, the program, the people that are kind of just like say, within the social media, all that sort of stuff?

Mark Taylor 00:26:06

How is that for you as someone who's always passionate about the subject matter to begin with and then how that kind of works through as a, as a business offensively?

Shelby Kretz 00:26:13

Yeah, no, it's so much fun actually.

Shelby Kretz 00:26:16

I love working with all of our team members.

Shelby Kretz 00:26:19

We're, you know, a small team.

Shelby Kretz 00:26:21

We're mostly part time but very passionate folks.

Shelby Kretz 00:26:24

And so the way it works, usually when we are going to create content around a specific topic, we will find what we call our content leaders.

Shelby Kretz 00:26:32

Now these are going to be folks who have experience with that topic.

Shelby Kretz 00:26:37

Right?

Shelby Kretz 00:26:37

They are known for it.

Shelby Kretz 00:26:38

They're, they're an activist or an educator who's talking about that topic.

Shelby Kretz 00:26:41

And they also have lived experience.

Shelby Kretz 00:26:43

So what that means, for example, let's say we're making content on disabilities.

Shelby Kretz 00:26:47

That means we're talking about an activist who's speaking up about disabilities and also has a disability themselves.

Shelby Kretz 00:26:53

Right?

Shelby Kretz 00:26:53

So they have, you know, a lot of personal and professional experience.

Shelby Kretz 00:26:57

We find multiple folks like that because we know that on any given topic, every single person's going to have different opinions.

Shelby Kretz 00:27:03

So we don't want just one perspective.

Shelby Kretz 00:27:04

We bring in multiple perspectives.

Shelby Kretz 00:27:06

Those folks will let us know kind of through, through a process we have, what do we need to teach?

Shelby Kretz 00:27:13

Right?

Shelby Kretz 00:27:13

What are the most important things to know about this topic?

Shelby Kretz 00:27:15

What are the misconceptions?

Shelby Kretz 00:27:17

What should parents keep in mind, that kind of thing and then our team will take that and make that age appropriate for kids.

Shelby Kretz 00:27:24

Right?

Shelby Kretz 00:27:25

So our team of educators are brilliant at taking complex things and making them, you know, kid friendly.

Shelby Kretz 00:27:33

And so that's what we'll do.

Shelby Kretz 00:27:35

And that's kind of the process.

Shelby Kretz 00:27:36

And then our, our content team will take that and turn it into our free resources that we put out to social media and to our email list.

Shelby Kretz 00:27:47

So it's kind of, kind of an entire process that starts with of course, like the source of the information, the people who really know what they're talking about, and then us kind of turning that content into kind of different, different resources for whether that's for kids or, you know, creating our resources for adults.

Shelby Kretz 00:28:05

So it's very collaborative, back and forth, conversational, which makes it really, really fun.

Mark Taylor 00:28:11

And this is why I love the podcast so much, because the whole point of it is to be able to sort of share these stories and, and this sort of organization.

Mark Taylor 00:28:19

Because of course, back in the day, as it were, it's like you go to school, there is a teacher who's been doing whatever they've been doing for however long, using their experience and a curriculum that may or may not have been as fleshed out as it might have been, depending on when that was sort of pre national curriculum, sort of here in, in the UK anyway.

Mark Taylor 00:28:37

And so the world's changing and there are so many brilliant people out, passionate about what they do, who can put things together that can support everybody.

Mark Taylor 00:28:45

And the more of these things that people hear about, and they go, oh, that's what I needed, but didn't know where to get it.

Mark Taylor 00:28:51

You know, I think that collaboration, like I say, within your team, but also within the education world and, and people that are kind of stakeholders in, in children's lives generally, you kind of feel like you've always got that support, whenever you need it, from people who really know what they're doing.

Mark Taylor 00:29:05

And I think that suddenly makes learning and education and bringing children up exciting because you kind of feel like they've got the best of everything because they surrounded by people that really, really are passionate about their lives and what they can do and actually be supportive and look after them in a, in a positive way.

Shelby Kretz 00:29:23

Yeah, absolutely.

Shelby Kretz 00:29:24

And that's entirely our goal, right, because we know families are busy, right.

Shelby Kretz 00:29:29

Educators are busy.

Shelby Kretz 00:29:31

There is so much to do.

Shelby Kretz 00:29:33

Our goal is to make your life so much easier.

Shelby Kretz 00:29:35

Right?

Shelby Kretz 00:29:36

We want you to, you know, take this lesson and go in your class and you can trust that we've done everything we can to make sure it came from, you know, credible sources that are telling, you know, multiple perspectives.

Shelby Kretz 00:29:52

Obviously, we make mistakes sometimes, and we're happy for to take feedback anytime that is.

Shelby Kretz 00:29:56

But, you know, you can trust that we've done.

Shelby Kretz 00:29:58

Done everything we can to collaborate with the right folks to make sure that the content you're getting is very high quality and based on, you know, the, you know, coming from the source and people who really know what they're talking about.

Shelby Kretz 00:30:10

Because, you know, like, you might care a lot about disability justice and LGBTQ justice and racial justice, but again, finding the time to, like, find the folks, get the information, break it down, and we really just want to make it easier for.

Shelby Kretz 00:30:24

For people to come in and get what they need and then be able to, you know, add this as, you know, a toolkit.

Shelby Kretz 00:30:30

And then the other thing we do also, hopefully to make your lives easier is all of this is aligned to academic standards.

Shelby Kretz 00:30:37

Right?

Shelby Kretz 00:30:37

So.

Shelby Kretz 00:30:37

So while you're doing our lessons, you're also going to be teaching literacy.

Shelby Kretz 00:30:41

You're going to be teaching of reading comprehension and critical thinking, all of these skills that you're already bringing to the classroom.

Mark Taylor 00:30:49

Love it.

Mark Taylor 00:30:49

Absolutely love it.

Mark Taylor 00:30:50

I was just thinking about how things were so different in the day.

Mark Taylor 00:30:53

I'm a musician, and when I was in college, I used to have to go and get the record or get the CD or then go to the library and then take a copy of the music, and then you'd have to go somewhere to get the whole thing.

Mark Taylor 00:31:07

I was at a concert over the weekend, and we had these awful parts that have been created by somebody that it wasn't like, the normal set of parts for this particular piece.

Mark Taylor 00:31:16

And literally within like, half a minute, I was able to go online, find the original part, download it, use it, add it to what I had already.

Mark Taylor 00:31:23

And I was like, that just wasn't possible not that long ago.

Mark Taylor 00:31:26

And so it's just amazing how the world has changed for our benefit and just, like, say, knowing how to navigate all those things in whichever part of life that is, it's just.

Mark Taylor 00:31:34

It just blows my mind all the the time.

Shelby Kretz 00:31:37

Exactly.

Shelby Kretz 00:31:38

It really is.

Shelby Kretz 00:31:38

I mean, it's a different world and usually for the better.

Shelby Kretz 00:31:41

I was laughing last week because in our city, the school system, somehow the Internet went down and they closed school for the day.

Shelby Kretz 00:31:53

And it just made me laugh because I was like, well, I went through that same school system, and we did not have Internet, and we did just fine.

Shelby Kretz 00:32:01

But it really is, like, everything that they do is now, like, connected, obviously online and.

Shelby Kretz 00:32:06

But it.

Shelby Kretz 00:32:07

It just Made me laug to think, wow, like, you know, when I was in school, we didn't even have Internet.

Shelby Kretz 00:32:11

And now that's grounds for closing the school for the day.

Mark Taylor 00:32:15

So it used to be food, food, water and air.

Mark Taylor 00:32:18

And now you always have stuff on the Internet at the side as well.

Shelby Kretz 00:32:21

I was like, was it snowing?

Shelby Kretz 00:32:23

Was it bad weather?

Shelby Kretz 00:32:24

No, the Internet was down.

Mark Taylor 00:32:26

I love it.

Mark Taylor 00:32:27

I love it.

Mark Taylor 00:32:28

Yeah, it's like pre Internet, was there a world.

Mark Taylor 00:32:31

I love it when the kids go like that.

Mark Taylor 00:32:32

It's amazing, right?

Mark Taylor 00:32:34

Yeah.

Shelby Kretz 00:32:34

They really don't understand different, different, different times.

Mark Taylor 00:32:38

Bless.

Mark Taylor 00:32:40

So in terms of being an educator, is there a teacher that you remember or an education experience that you remember that had an impact?

Mark Taylor 00:32:47

And this, this can always be positive or negative, but I'm always curious as to how that sort of influence or that understanding maybe sort of helped you shape the way you wanted to be an educator or certainly sort of bringing it into what you're doing now.

Shelby Kretz 00:32:59

Yeah, there was, when I was in, in high school, I had a science teacher, a biology teacher, who really, I felt like Jess kind of saw me as a human in a way that I didn't know that most teachers did at the time.

Shelby Kretz 00:33:15

So I worked really hard in that class and, you know, worked on a science fair project.

Shelby Kretz 00:33:21

It was very hands on.

Shelby Kretz 00:33:22

He was really supportive of that.

Shelby Kretz 00:33:23

But I will never forget, at the end of the semester, he pulled me aside and he said, like, I just want to let you know your grade for this class is, is a B or whatever it came out to be.

Shelby Kretz 00:33:34

But I wanted to ask you what you think you deserve because I know you worked really hard.

Shelby Kretz 00:33:40

And I will never forget that because he let me choose my grade even though I had, you know, he told me what I earned, and then he asked me what I thought I deserved, and then he gave me what I said I thought I deserved.

Shelby Kretz 00:33:51

And I.

Shelby Kretz 00:33:53

It was the first time, I think, that I had an educator truly, like, trust my judgment in that, like, deep of a way or what felt to me at the time a very deep way to let me say no, like, this is what I think, and then to stand by what I said I thought.

Shelby Kretz 00:34:10

And yeah, it just was a sense of agency and control over my own educational experience that I had never experienced before.

Shelby Kretz 00:34:17

And recognizing how much respect and trust he had in me to let me make that decision just really changed the way I thought about my education and the confidence I had in myself.

Shelby Kretz 00:34:28

So I think that for me was.

Shelby Kretz 00:34:29

Was very profound.

Shelby Kretz 00:34:30

And I want to, you know, give that sense of agency and control to my students as well.

Mark Taylor 00:34:35

I love that.

Mark Taylor 00:34:36

And it's the heart of that is, I think the thing I've learned the Most over the 400 odd episodes we've released now as part of the podcast is that, yeah, that, that being seen, that being understood, that trust, that relationship.

Mark Taylor 00:34:49

And each of the conversations are slightly different, but I think at the heart of it, that's, that's the key is the being seen and understanding how that is.

Mark Taylor 00:34:57

And it's so powerful.

Mark Taylor 00:34:58

And it's got nothing to do with learning in, in the heart of it.

Mark Taylor 00:35:02

It's about that human connection.

Mark Taylor 00:35:03

It's about that I see you, you see me.

Mark Taylor 00:35:06

You know, we're obviously conversing on a, maybe a teacher, pupil level, but it's an, it's an amazing thing.

Mark Taylor 00:35:11

And I think if I could bottle that and give it to everybody, I just think that everyone should have someone in their life that's been able to do that.

Mark Taylor 00:35:18

And I know it's not always a teacher.

Mark Taylor 00:35:19

Sometimes it might be someone around your community, but that.

Mark Taylor 00:35:22

Such an incredible thing to be able to do.

Mark Taylor 00:35:23

And I love it when that sort of ripple effect carries on into like, say, into your work and everyone else's work as they go through.

Mark Taylor 00:35:29

It's amazing.

Shelby Kretz 00:35:30

Yeah.

Shelby Kretz 00:35:31

Yeah, it really is.

Mark Taylor 00:35:33

What's the best piece of advice you've ever been given?

Mark Taylor 00:35:35

Or indeed is there some advice you might give your younger self now, sort of looking back as a.

Mark Taylor 00:35:40

Is a more mature Shelby?

Shelby Kretz 00:35:41

So we're saying, yeah, I think the, the advice I'd want to give myself, and that I've heard before too, is just to take, take action.

Shelby Kretz 00:35:50

I think sometimes we, we, we sit back and dream a lot.

Shelby Kretz 00:35:54

And obviously there are often a million barriers in the way to that.

Shelby Kretz 00:35:59

But for me, like, you know, when I had the idea for Little Justice Leaders, I just started posting on Instagram and I said, hey, like, here's some resources to use with kids.

Shelby Kretz 00:36:08

And, and that was how the whole thing got started.

Shelby Kretz 00:36:10

It was just because I decided to take it to Instagram and post it.

Shelby Kretz 00:36:13

And I think I could have sat with that idea for a really long time and done nothing, because I could have.

Shelby Kretz 00:36:18

I had a million excuses, right?

Shelby Kretz 00:36:20

I'm in school, I'm in grad school.

Shelby Kretz 00:36:21

I don't know how to run a business.

Shelby Kretz 00:36:23

I don't know where to start.

Shelby Kretz 00:36:24

I don't know what people need.

Shelby Kretz 00:36:25

But it was just let me post and start having a conversation.

Shelby Kretz 00:36:28

And I started, ask teachers and parents, what do you need?

Shelby Kretz 00:36:31

What would be helpful?

Shelby Kretz 00:36:32

And I'm so glad I did that.

Shelby Kretz 00:36:34

And I wish, you know, when I was younger, I wish I would have just been more, you know, ready to just jump and take action and see where things lead me.

Shelby Kretz 00:36:43

And I would always encourage especially young people, but really all people to do that as well.

Mark Taylor 00:36:48

Yeah, it's so important, isn't it?

Mark Taylor 00:36:49

Because you would have got the most beautiful box and the best resources to send out as you were ready to launch your thing, and then you suddenly realized you were going to go digital anyway, so you wasted all that time before you even got any resources to begin with.

Mark Taylor 00:37:01

So, yeah, do what you can do now and then change and morph and pivot and expand as you can.

Mark Taylor 00:37:06

And really great advice.

Mark Taylor 00:37:10

Is there a resource you'd like to share?

Mark Taylor 00:37:12

And this can be anything, personal or professional, whether it's a podcast, film, book, song, anything that you like.

Mark Taylor 00:37:17

But, yeah, something that's had an impact or might be nice for people to hear.

Shelby Kretz 00:37:21

Yeah, so a book that really had an impact for me.

Shelby Kretz 00:37:26

Gosh, I.

Shelby Kretz 00:37:26

I read a lot, so there are a lot of books.

Shelby Kretz 00:37:29

But one that really impacted me at a, I think, critical point in my journey was called the Art of Non Conformity by Chris Gillebo.

Shelby Kretz 00:37:36

And I read that when I was in my early 20s, and it just really made think differently.

Shelby Kretz 00:37:42

Right.

Shelby Kretz 00:37:42

I didn't necessarily agree with everything he was saying, but he was sharing his own journey of traveling and starting a business and just what the title sounds like, the Art of Non Conformity.

Shelby Kretz 00:37:54

And thinking about, you know, what are you doing?

Shelby Kretz 00:37:56

Because you've been told that's what you should be doing versus what are you doing, because you really want to be doing that.

Shelby Kretz 00:38:01

And I think that message is something I always want to send to my students as well, of, you know, explore life in the way that makes sense for you, not in the way that you think you should.

Shelby Kretz 00:38:12

And so I think, yeah, reading that in my early 20s really kind of shifted how I just thought about my career and my life and how I was living.

Shelby Kretz 00:38:19

And yeah, I would.

Shelby Kretz 00:38:20

I would recommend it especially for folks who maybe are thinking about, like, different.

Shelby Kretz 00:38:24

Different ways of approaching the world and wanting some.

Shelby Kretz 00:38:26

Some validation and support in that journey.

Mark Taylor 00:38:29

I think it's so important, and it's not something like, say that you immediately think.

Mark Taylor 00:38:34

I think especially students a lot of the time, because you sort of have that sense, I should know everything.

Mark Taylor 00:38:38

I'm meant to be a certain way.

Mark Taylor 00:38:40

I'm not going to put my hand up in class and ask anything or I'm not going to Put my head above the parapet.

Mark Taylor 00:38:44

And as soon as you realize one, you should.

Mark Taylor 00:38:46

Because if you've got something to say, it's really important for you and all the people in your class or your community or wherever you happen to be.

Mark Taylor 00:38:54

But also you start to realize that it's not about conforming and actually being someone in the herd of the class or the school or the.

Mark Taylor 00:39:01

Or the community.

Mark Taylor 00:39:02

It's actually about you being your best self, which brings that to the world, which is what the world needs in, in essence, isn't it?

Mark Taylor 00:39:08

But it's so kind of the other side of what so many people either brought up to or actually believe from the get go.

Shelby Kretz 00:39:14

Exactly.

Mark Taylor 00:39:16

So the acronym FIRE is obviously really important to us here at Education on Fire.

Mark Taylor 00:39:20

And by that we mean feedback, inspiration, resilience and empowerment.

Mark Taylor 00:39:25

What is it that strikes you when you hear that?

Mark Taylor 00:39:28

Whether it's each word or one word in particular, but yeah, something that immediately sort of hits you.

Shelby Kretz 00:39:33

Yeah.

Shelby Kretz 00:39:34

So for me, kind of these words in general embody a mentor of mine who was always, you know, so supportive of me.

Shelby Kretz 00:39:42

Dr.

Shelby Kretz 00:39:42

Patty Cunningham.

Shelby Kretz 00:39:43

She was my biggest cheerleader.

Shelby Kretz 00:39:46

I met her while I was in college.

Shelby Kretz 00:39:47

She wasn't even my professor.

Shelby Kretz 00:39:49

She was just a professor.

Shelby Kretz 00:39:50

And I happened to get connected to her and she was so supportive.

Shelby Kretz 00:39:55

So also honest.

Shelby Kretz 00:39:56

Right.

Shelby Kretz 00:39:56

When I think of feedback, she was honest.

Shelby Kretz 00:39:58

She was direct.

Shelby Kretz 00:39:58

Direct.

Shelby Kretz 00:39:58

And she was kind.

Shelby Kretz 00:40:00

She, you know, kind of painted a vision of, of the work that I was doing and how she saw that going and was just always there to like, empower and support me in every, every part of that journey.

Shelby Kretz 00:40:12

She wrote my letters of recommendation for grad school.

Shelby Kretz 00:40:15

She was actually the person who pushed me to go to grad school.

Shelby Kretz 00:40:17

She always used to say, like, we need more female PhDs.

Shelby Kretz 00:40:20

Like, we need more female PhDs.

Shelby Kretz 00:40:22

So really, really, really pushed me into that work.

Shelby Kretz 00:40:23

Work, Wrote the letters of recommendation, stood by me through all of that.

Shelby Kretz 00:40:27

Sadly, she passed while I was in school.

Shelby Kretz 00:40:30

But I just, you know, when I think of, of mentorship and these words in particular of, you know, feedback, inspiration, resilience and empowerment, I always think of her and who she embodied as an educator and as, you know, a mentor and advisor and friend really.

Shelby Kretz 00:40:47

And so I hope that I can bring that into, to my education work as well, to honor her legacy.

Shelby Kretz 00:40:53

Legacy.

Mark Taylor 00:40:55

I think having someone like that in your life, that sort of embodies everything that you kind of almost want to achieve and think you could strive for.

Mark Taylor 00:41:04

But I think certainly in my, in my situation, it was always that.

Mark Taylor 00:41:07

Can you really Should I like you say, but someone to say, of course you should.

Mark Taylor 00:41:11

And not only should you, for you, you should do it for the greater good maybe.

Mark Taylor 00:41:15

Or yeah, like you say to sort of really help and, and you can't ever know where that's going to go.

Mark Taylor 00:41:20

And I mean, and I'm sure when you were sort of entering that initial sort sort of grad school kind of idea, you weren't thinking about where you were going to be today as opposed to back then.

Mark Taylor 00:41:29

So just understanding that the path isn't necessarily even where you think it's going to begin with is such an important factor.

Shelby Kretz 00:41:36

Exactly.

Shelby Kretz 00:41:37

Yeah, definitely.

Mark Taylor 00:41:39

So thank you so much for sharing all of this.

Mark Taylor 00:41:41

It's brilliant.

Mark Taylor 00:41:41

I love, I love it when, I love it when you sort of hear the passion and the understanding of people that are involved in these things.

Mark Taylor 00:41:48

That's why I love talking so much, I think because you can see the websites and you can see the memberships and you can wow it what's being offered.

Mark Taylor 00:41:55

But there's something about the human element that human contact and hearing people talk about it, which is, which is such an important thing and I think that's what people connect with as they go through.

Mark Taylor 00:42:05

So thank you so much for that and for, for sharing all those things.

Mark Taylor 00:42:09

Where's the place that everyone needs to go to find out more?

Mark Taylor 00:42:11

You mentioned Instagram but also the website as well.

Mark Taylor 00:42:13

And we'll have links to these in the show notes too.

Mark Taylor 00:42:15

But just so people have heard it.

Shelby Kretz 00:42:16

Yeah.

Shelby Kretz 00:42:17

So if you go to one place today, go to go online to LJL Education Ed on Fire.

Shelby Kretz 00:42:24

So LJL Education Edonfire.

Shelby Kretz 00:42:27

That's going to take you to our.

Shelby Kretz 00:42:30

One of our free resources which is how to talk to kids about current events.

Shelby Kretz 00:42:33

It's a framework for talking to kids that's also going to get you onto our email list and that's where you're going to get the best resources, everything free that we have to offer.

Shelby Kretz 00:42:43

Now if you're a social media person for sure check out Instagram.

Shelby Kretz 00:42:46

We're on pretty much every social media ittlejusticeleaders and our website's little justiceleaders.com as well.

Shelby Kretz 00:42:53

But for sure I'm going to say our email list like if you want free resources, if you're like, okay, I want to get started with this work, that's the place to be.

Mark Taylor 00:43:00

Amazing.

Mark Taylor 00:43:01

Thank you so much indeed.

Mark Taylor 00:43:03

Keep up the great work.

Mark Taylor 00:43:04

I'm excited to see where it goes.

Mark Taylor 00:43:06

We should chat again in the future because like I say, absolutely so many things, but I could just tell that, you know, there's a whole world out there which probably even you haven't started to conceive yet, which you'll be able to help people with as well.

Mark Taylor 00:43:15

So.

Mark Taylor 00:43:15

Yeah.

Shelby Kretz 00:43:15

Thank you so much.

Shelby Kretz 00:43:17

Yes.

Shelby Kretz 00:43:17

Thank you, Mark.

Mark Taylor 00:43:18

Amazing.

Mark Taylor 00:43:18

Amazing.

Mark Taylor 00:43:19

Speak to you again very soon.

Shelby Kretz 00:43:20

Yes.

Mark Taylor 00:43:22

Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire.