The Power of Meditation: Building Resilience in Students

Speaker A 00:00:22

Creating the idea of wellness, physical wellness, mental wellness, financial wellness, spiritual wellness, so that the students have an opportunity to graduate, not only having received some academic knowledge, but also with some tools for having a meaningful, purposeful and happy life.

Speaker A 00:00:46

Every morning I look at the subject sun coming up and I say and remind myself that I'm trading a day of my life for this day.

Speaker A 00:00:56

If resilience is anything at all, it's getting back up on the horse after it throws you off.

Speaker A 00:01:03

And that's what meditation teaches you.

Speaker A 00:01:06

So people that meditate become amazingly resilient.

Speaker B 00:01:11

Hello and welcome back.

Speaker B 00:01:13

That was Bob Martin.

Speaker B 00:01:14

And Bob's uncommon journey takes him from a high powered criminal trial lawyer during the Miami cocaine cowboy era to a healing force.

Speaker B 00:01:21

Bob has become a certified meditation teacher, mentor and a published author and he's currently serving as a professor of wellness and mindfulness coordinator at Elon University.

Speaker B 00:01:30

This is a roller coaster of rides, so strap up and I really hope you enjoy this amazing conversation.

Speaker B 00:01:37

Hello, my name is Mark Taylor and welcome to the Education on Far podcast, the place for creative and inspiring learning from around the world.

Speaker B 00:01:50

Listen to teachers, parents and mentors show how they are supporting children to live their best authentic life and are proving to be a guiding light to us all.

Speaker B 00:01:59

Hi Bob, thank you so much for joining us here on the Education on Far podcast.

Speaker B 00:02:03

There are many things that are important to me and I think the more conversations I've had over the 430something episodes which have gone live as of today.

Speaker B 00:02:11

I think it's just that the environment that you live and the environment that you work and the understanding that that is your own perspective a lot of the time it's not just what' there for you, it's how you're sort of using that and making it work for you.

Speaker B 00:02:24

So I think this is going to be a very valuable and important conversation for so many people, certainly within the education world.

Speaker B 00:02:29

So yeah, thanks so much for joining us.

Speaker A 00:02:31

Oh, thank you so much for having me.

Speaker B 00:02:34

So why don't we first dive into.

Speaker B 00:02:36

I think we should start with the journey because I know you've had a varied career and I think it's important that we really understand how that's come about because I think your lifestyle from when you were younger to what you're able to do now and share it is going to be something that people are going to be really interested in.

Speaker B 00:02:52

So yes, start us on that part of that part of the journey.

Speaker A 00:02:56

Well, it has been varied, I will say that.

Speaker A 00:03:00

I mean my younger life was spent in amusement parks and Carnivals.

Speaker A 00:03:05

My father, who immigrated from Hungary, my mom from Lithuania, decided that their route through the American dream, so to speak, was through popcorn and caramel corn.

Speaker A 00:03:17

And so that was the environment I grew up in.

Speaker A 00:03:21

And it was.

Speaker A 00:03:25

It was unusual, let's just say, you know, putting up rides, taking down rides in the games and all of the food and just the culture of the carnival was an interesting way to experience your early life.

Speaker A 00:03:42

And I grew up, I was a big boy.

Speaker A 00:03:48

And so, unfortunately, I did suffer a bit of bullying from girls about my size.

Speaker A 00:03:56

And towards the end of high school, I found out that a big boy has a purpose in sports, especially in American football.

Speaker A 00:04:06

And I wound up going to Boston University on a football scholarship and then eventually had a terrible injury, which ended that.

Speaker A 00:04:17

And then I flunked out of school.

Speaker A 00:04:19

And I think that's an important little piece in there.

Speaker A 00:04:23

I flunked out of school and didn't know where I was going.

Speaker A 00:04:27

Was living in a hippie, dippy, 1960s, 1970s apartment with a bunch of other folks, and never expected that I would wind up being a lawyer.

Speaker A 00:04:40

But there was this one fellow who insisted that that's what I should do.

Speaker A 00:04:44

He insisted to such an extent that he actually went out and got a job and earned the money for me to pay for the entrance ticket to the law school aptitude test.

Speaker B 00:04:55

Wow.

Speaker A 00:04:56

Gave me a postal money order made out to the educational testing service, which I could not check.

Speaker A 00:05:03

Cash, of course, and so you should go take the test.

Speaker A 00:05:06

One law school.

Speaker A 00:05:07

One law school took a chance on me, and.

Speaker A 00:05:11

And so I wound up.

Speaker A 00:05:13

I wound up being a lawyer, much to my father's chagrin.

Speaker A 00:05:15

Being, you know, a businessman, he didn't have much use for lawyers.

Speaker B 00:05:21

And it's such an interesting journey, isn't it?

Speaker B 00:05:24

Because so many people sort of go the other way around.

Speaker B 00:05:26

It's like I'm used to the corporate life or this is what I've experienced.

Speaker B 00:05:29

I want.

Speaker B 00:05:29

I want to get out of that and have the freedom, which is.

Speaker B 00:05:32

Sounds like much more the world that you had when you were younger.

Speaker B 00:05:34

That sort of.

Speaker B 00:05:36

Sort of growing up in that particular way sort of sounds like what people want to navigate towards rather than the other way around.

Speaker B 00:05:42

So, yeah, fascinating that it worked out like that.

Speaker B 00:05:44

And, and, and so when you sort of got involved in that, were you just glad to have the opportunity to do it?

Speaker B 00:05:50

Was it something you then enjoyed and how did you sort of take that forward?

Speaker A 00:05:54

You mean law school?

Speaker A 00:05:55

Yeah, you know, I.

Speaker A 00:05:59

My.

Speaker A 00:05:59

My whole ambition in life really, up until that point, was to Sell enough hot dogs in the summer so that I wouldn't have to work in.

Speaker A 00:06:07

And really that was my ambition in life.

Speaker A 00:06:10

And it wasn't until I got to law school and I got settled in and I remember sitting around in the little common room of the law school with all the other freshmen and talking about what we wanted to do.

Speaker A 00:06:27

And somebody asked me, well, what.

Speaker A 00:06:29

What kind of lawyer do you want to be?

Speaker A 00:06:32

And I said I wanted to be a judge.

Speaker A 00:06:35

And I didn't know.

Speaker A 00:06:36

I didn't know what that meant or entailed or anything else, but it was a.

Speaker A 00:06:41

I'll never forget the sensation that came over me at that moment, that all of a sudden there was a possibility that this guy, Bob Martin might make a difference in the world.

Speaker A 00:06:53

That path was.

Speaker A 00:06:55

It opened up for me at that moment and I never look back.

Speaker A 00:07:01

And, you know, then it was, I'm in, I'm in it to win it.

Speaker A 00:07:05

It's 100% and I'm going to go do this.

Speaker A 00:07:08

And so I had a wonderful career.

Speaker A 00:07:11

I spent 40 years as a trial lawyer.

Speaker A 00:07:13

I've tried maybe 150 jury trials of, you know, high level felony cases.

Speaker A 00:07:21

And I guess one of the things that makes me a good teacher today, I think, is that I have seen everything.

Speaker A 00:07:30

There's nothing that a student can tell me that's going to surprise me, make me feel judgmental, make me feel like they're acting outside of the normal boundaries of behavior.

Speaker A 00:07:43

And I think that that makes a difference, that they can sense that I'm not judging them.

Speaker B 00:07:53

And also, that kind of anything you're going to do that's going to try and shock me or just kind of get one over, or is that kind of.

Speaker B 00:08:00

I'll just trump you each time.

Speaker B 00:08:02

So once you've kind of got that relationship, you kind of, you know that, right?

Speaker A 00:08:05

Because, yeah, when they, when they come to me with the excuses, they can't pull it off.

Speaker A 00:08:12

I gotta tell you what the funniest excuse I ever got was, though.

Speaker A 00:08:15

I have to share this with.

Speaker A 00:08:17

I get a phone call from one of my students and she says, professor Martin, I'm sorry, I'm not going to be able to make it to class because there is this big bug in between me and my door and every time I move, it moves with me and I get out of my room.

Speaker A 00:08:39

I thought that was a good one.

Speaker A 00:08:40

Exactly.

Speaker B 00:08:41

You've got to hear them all, haven't you, in order to do that?

Speaker B 00:08:44

So amazing.

Speaker B 00:08:45

Amazing.

Speaker B 00:08:46

So in terms of, of what you're doing now, in terms of sort of understanding how that works, like, say, within the university field and.

Speaker B 00:08:54

And the work that you do individually.

Speaker B 00:08:56

Is it stuff that you've.

Speaker B 00:08:59

That supported you during that professional sort of being a lawyer world, or is it something that sort of.

Speaker B 00:09:04

You gradually incorporated it as you got older?

Speaker B 00:09:07

Where did that sort of joining of those worlds come about?

Speaker A 00:09:12

So, you know, it's kind of like there's Act 1 and Act 2.

Speaker A 00:09:20

Act 1, you know, was Miami in the 60s and 70s.

Speaker A 00:09:25

It was the.

Speaker A 00:09:27

If you ever seen the movie scarface or the.

Speaker A 00:09:30

The TV show Miami vice.

Speaker B 00:09:32

Yep.

Speaker A 00:09:32

Those are the days I'm talking about.

Speaker A 00:09:34

Those are the crazy cocaine cowboy days.

Speaker A 00:09:37

And I was a mob.

Speaker A 00:09:38

Well, first I was a prosecutor, and we hit the mob for a lot of money.

Speaker A 00:09:43

72 million.

Speaker A 00:09:44

And then I went out in private practice, and they came and they said, you got to be pretty good to hit us with that much money.

Speaker A 00:09:51

We want to hire you.

Speaker A 00:09:53

And so I'm a mob lawyer, and I'm the cat's meow.

Speaker A 00:09:57

I'm on the top of my profession, I think I'm just, you know, everything, and I can do anything, and I'm invulnerable, and anything I do works.

Speaker A 00:10:06

And.

Speaker A 00:10:07

But unfortunately, my personal life was falling apart and.

Speaker A 00:10:13

And like it is with so many people, I.

Speaker A 00:10:16

I reached out for aid, and there was a therapist.

Speaker A 00:10:19

Well, make a very, very long story short, it turns out that my therapist was the English language editor and one of the top students of a 72nd generation master Taoist monk from the shaolin temple, the Kung Fu Temple.

Speaker A 00:10:43

72nd generations of.

Speaker A 00:10:45

Handing down wisdom from his father to his son.

Speaker A 00:10:48

72 generations.

Speaker A 00:10:51

And I met.

Speaker A 00:10:52

Master Ni is watching me.

Speaker A 00:10:54

I met master Ni and.

Speaker A 00:10:56

And I don't know, Mark, I'm sure that you have at times run into people and you just.

Speaker A 00:11:04

I don't want to sound maudlin here, but you want to throw yourself at their feet and say, just teach me.

Speaker A 00:11:08

I want to get.

Speaker A 00:11:09

I want what you got, you know, Teach me, please.

Speaker A 00:11:14

And so I studied under master knee for six years, seven years.

Speaker A 00:11:20

And that was my first real introduction to any kind of systematized way of living, you know, And.

Speaker A 00:11:31

And so it changed me.

Speaker A 00:11:32

And then just about the same time that these changes were beginning to make.

Speaker A 00:11:42

Make some real internal changes, I ran into a little bit of trouble, I'd say, with my mob clients.

Speaker A 00:11:49

And we thought that it would be better if I left Miami.

Speaker A 00:11:53

So I moved to North Carolina.

Speaker A 00:11:55

And when I got here, it was a blank canvas.

Speaker A 00:12:00

You know, all of a sudden I had The Opportunity Act 2 started and.

Speaker A 00:12:06

And I could either, you know, bring with me the parts of act one that I wanted to or leave them behind.

Speaker A 00:12:11

I had this wonderful freedom to recreate and redefine myself.

Speaker A 00:12:16

So at that point, I devoted myself to public service and indigent work and the like.

Speaker A 00:12:22

And I practiced until 2015, mostly taking care of folks, you know, who had appointed lawyers.

Speaker A 00:12:34

And then I retired, and I thought that life was going to be easy.

Speaker A 00:12:38

But then Elon University said, we want you to come teach.

Speaker A 00:12:43

I think I was two months retirement.

Speaker B 00:12:47

Hadn't quite got bored at that point, instead of enjoying the time.

Speaker A 00:12:52

But all of this time, you know, here in all of this time, after studying with Master Ni, there were certain other events that occurred, and I got involved with some Buddhist temples, and some of the most wonderful meditation teachers that are out there reached out to me through their organization, and they said, we would like you to go through the training to be a teacher.

Speaker A 00:13:18

And it's two years, very intense.

Speaker A 00:13:22

And I came out the other side and thought I was going to change the world with meditation.

Speaker A 00:13:28

But it's a hard conversation, you know, oh, people say, yeah, you know, oh, meditation, I need that.

Speaker A 00:13:34

I want to do that.

Speaker A 00:13:35

I said, well, you know, could you give it 10 minutes a day?

Speaker A 00:13:38

Well, I don't know.

Speaker A 00:13:39

Sure, if I've got that kind of time.

Speaker A 00:13:43

But then I found out that at Duke University, they were doing some real intense research between the counseling department, the education department, the psychology department, the religious department, and I think the medical school.

Speaker A 00:14:07

And they were doing, how do we.

Speaker A 00:14:10

How do we create a way of teaching meditation that is attractive to the Western mind, so that some of our very, very stressed students will buy into the idea of learning this skill.

Speaker A 00:14:25

And after many years of research, they came up with this wonderful system called koru, which I then heard about and went and got certified in that.

Speaker A 00:14:35

And the system they worked at really, really is a good one.

Speaker B 00:14:41

And I think this was the reason I wanted to sort of take us on this journey, was because there are so many elements that people will identify with.

Speaker B 00:14:49

I certainly have the experience of, like I said, meeting somewhere where you.

Speaker B 00:14:54

Someone, when you just go, there's something about this person, and it might be obvious, like you say, because immediately you know who they are, or it might be something about what they do or the community they're part of that.

Speaker B 00:15:05

You realize there's more to this than what I've experienced before in my previous life and that kind of thing.

Speaker B 00:15:12

And, you know, yours is obviously sort of on a.

Speaker B 00:15:14

On a level that most people won't necessarily get to experience.

Speaker B 00:15:18

But I think you can identify with.

Speaker B 00:15:20

With that, with that journey in some way, and then also identifying with the fact that you want your life to be different in some way or another.

Speaker B 00:15:28

And actually, like, say, going out and finding what that might be.

Speaker B 00:15:33

Meditation, understanding that there are people out there that can help you, that it can help support you in the world that you're currently in, whether you're an educator, like you say, or stress student, whatever, that it doesn't have to look the way that you perceive it to be, and it can change and it can morph and.

Speaker B 00:15:49

And also from your professional standpoint, like, say, two sides of that coin are pretty far apart in terms of a work balance, so to speak.

Speaker B 00:16:00

And I think for educators, sort of just hearing about the fact there's the second act, whether it's a different type of education, whether it's a different career, whether it's bringing your passion into what you're doing to help people in a different way.

Speaker B 00:16:13

And whatever your take on that, whatever your kind of understanding or what you identify with, I think that becomes very inspirational to then realize there isn't a right time or right place.

Speaker B 00:16:22

But often it unfolds for you, which I think demonstrates brilliantly.

Speaker B 00:16:26

Like you say you had no idea that the therapist was going to be the person that was going to suddenly open this world that you had no idea about before.

Speaker B 00:16:34

But if it's.

Speaker B 00:16:35

If it's meant to be in inverted commas, or you're willing to sort of step into what's offered and what opportunities come to you, then they're there.

Speaker B 00:16:42

And I think that's a great starting point for the conversation because like you say, then you can step into the board that you want and get the help that you need.

Speaker A 00:16:50

Well said.

Speaker A 00:16:53

You know, it's funny, I go back and forth.

Speaker A 00:16:58

There's a part of me that's very science and evidence based, and then there's a part of me that's quite mystic in the mystery of it all.

Speaker A 00:17:13

And I kind of go, you know, with this question of synchronicity.

Speaker A 00:17:17

I go back and forth between, well, you know, things just happen and they may appear to be synchronous.

Speaker A 00:17:26

There may appear to be a co.

Speaker A 00:17:28

They are coincidental because they're happening at the same time, which is what coincidence means.

Speaker A 00:17:34

An incident that happens jointly with another incident.

Speaker A 00:17:38

So they are coincidental.

Speaker A 00:17:40

But whether they're synchronous or whether they're offroad forces at work that bring things together so that they unfold I, I go back and forth over that.

Speaker A 00:17:50

My own experience tells me that there are too many things that have come together in too strange a way for there not to be some connective tissue.

Speaker A 00:18:03

But you know, it is above my pay grade.

Speaker B 00:18:05

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker B 00:18:07

But I think it's fascinating for people to hear, isn't it?

Speaker B 00:18:10

Because like I say, you can sort of identify in whichever way sort of sort of talks to you, as it were.

Speaker B 00:18:16

And I'm fascinated by the fact that you're, you're sort of professor of wellness and mindfulness coordinator.

Speaker B 00:18:21

I mean that's something that you're not going to hear in every university.

Speaker B 00:18:24

It's not an opportunity you're going to get to share and support people with.

Speaker B 00:18:28

So how did that, that come about?

Speaker B 00:18:30

Was it through your training and then the opportunity or did you sort of have an ongoing conversation with people?

Speaker B 00:18:36

How did that sort of work out for you?

Speaker A 00:18:38

Well, that's a, that's a great question and I think it's an important thing to put out there in put out there this information.

Speaker A 00:18:46

I was originally hired to teach undergraduates a business law course, which was really just a survey course.

Speaker A 00:18:53

Touch a little on contracts, touch a little on criminal law.

Speaker A 00:18:58

And that was what I was originally hired for.

Speaker A 00:19:01

But because a big piece of my life was engaged in meditation and mindfulness, I kept trying to create courses like Mindful Leadership, where I could integrate some of that into the business school at my university.

Speaker A 00:19:19

And I kept trying to push a little bit the culture to become more mindful on campus.

Speaker A 00:19:26

And then we were able to get this employee resource group together where faculty and staff would come together once a month to get a free lunch and a little presentation about mindfulness.

Speaker A 00:19:43

So I became the coordinator of that monthly meeting.

Speaker A 00:19:46

That was great.

Speaker A 00:19:47

But then the big thing happened and that is that there is currently an initiative that's starting.

Speaker A 00:19:54

I don't know if it's over by you, but there are a number of universities here which are integrating an initiative called an he, which is the health Education University, which is a university within a university.

Speaker B 00:20:11

Okay.

Speaker A 00:20:12

Yeah, so to speak.

Speaker A 00:20:13

It is an initiative of creating the idea of wellness, physical wellness, mental wellness, financial wellness, spiritual wellness, so that the students have an opportunity to graduate not only having receive some academic knowledge, but also with some tools for having a meaningful, purposeful and happy life.

Speaker A 00:20:40

And so when that initiative was getting beginning to get some traction, I was in the perfect place to be able to get a meditation course going.

Speaker A 00:20:50

So now I, I've got a two credit meditation course each semester and I'M loving it.

Speaker B 00:20:57

I can imagine.

Speaker B 00:20:58

And like I say, when all those things sort of come together again, we go back to that synchronicity, like right place, right time, right opportunity, whatever that happens to be.

Speaker B 00:21:07

But I think, I think even the fact that this is even something that people can have the opportunity to experience now is so far removed from the just, I'm gonna go get my degree, go out into the world.

Speaker B 00:21:18

Because at that point, not only do you maybe have the skills to be much better at whatever you're studying and go into your career being as well, because you're more aware of yourself, you're going to be more aware of other people and then, you know, paying it forward, being supportive in your community, being able to help other people because of the insights that you have.

Speaker B 00:21:37

That ripple effect has to be such a positive one.

Speaker A 00:21:41

Yeah, I'm excited about it.

Speaker B 00:21:44

So in terms of that sort of work side of things, how are you finding it?

Speaker B 00:21:50

Like I said, you know, you were two, two months ret what life may or may not have looked like as part of retirement.

Speaker B 00:21:58

So how are you enjoying the sort of being within an institution but also sort of having that freedom, I guess, to sort of like say be practicing and sharing the sort of work that you really love?

Speaker A 00:22:13

Mark, I.

Speaker A 00:22:18

I would pay them to let me do what I do.

Speaker A 00:22:23

I have this incredible privilege of getting 15 people who have self identified as either perfectionists or overthinkers or stressed out or overwhelmed.

Speaker A 00:22:42

Because why would you decide to take an elective called Meditation if you didn't think that there was some benefit from it that you were looking for?

Speaker A 00:22:53

So I start with 15 of these folks every semester and the way that they developed the Coru course at Duke, it includes an entire digital infrastructure which has an app and a dashboard.

Speaker A 00:23:10

Each of the students have has their app.

Speaker A 00:23:13

I'll teach them.

Speaker A 00:23:15

I'll meet with them for our two hours a week and teach them some techniques and then they go home and I ask them to practice 10 minutes a day.

Speaker A 00:23:25

Once they do their prayer and there are guided meditations on the app.

Speaker A 00:23:30

Once they do that, there is a place that opens up a log for them to say what that 10 minutes was like for them.

Speaker A 00:23:39

Every single day I get up at 4 o'clock in the morning and I open up my dashboard and I get all the 15 logs and I get to answer them and it goes back to their app and they get to read my coaching before they do their next practice.

Speaker A 00:23:59

This is absolutely an amazing way to teach.

Speaker A 00:24:03

I mean, imagine if you are, I Mean, if you're teaching a purely didactic, I gotta learn it and memorize it from the book.

Speaker A 00:24:14

This might not be, you know, the thing, but let's say that, you know, you're in a philosophy course or a history course or the like and you had the opportunity to read a passage, reflect on it, and then before you read the next passage, your professor was able to respond to your reflection, that one on one interplay happening on a daily basis.

Speaker A 00:24:40

Now I can't take more than 15 students at a time.

Speaker A 00:24:44

And so for, you know, public education, you have 30, 40, 50 people in the class.

Speaker A 00:24:49

It's not very practicable, but you know, on some level where it's possible, this process is an amazing way to teach.

Speaker A 00:24:59

And I get to see the inside of their thinking even as it changes.

Speaker A 00:25:06

And then somewhere about halfway into the course, all of a sudden they break free of the conditioning and I get to see that happening.

Speaker A 00:25:16

And it's just incredibly, incredibly gratifying.

Speaker B 00:25:21

I love that in so many ways because like you said, there's, there's that journey that they're on and like you say that there's an excitement that you, because you know that it's there, you know, it's possible you can, you can see all those stepping stones being put in place and they're on that path that you're able to sort of help and guide them with.

Speaker B 00:25:38

And the education piece I find fascinating as well, because like I say, there are some subjects which would automatically sort of lend themselves for this to work now, but I think with technology moving forward, with AI learning, with personal learning and that kind of thing, I think even some of those more sort of knowledge based and standardized sort of subjects, because I think the way that you can learn and the way that you can put those things together and as tutors and professors and teachers become more mentors and supporter rather than just knowledge givers, that sort of thing, I think, I think the, the same principle can apply slightly further down the track.

Speaker B 00:26:15

And it'll be interesting to see how schools and universities and colleges sort of how that they adapt and how the system sort of changes in there.

Speaker B 00:26:23

Because I think the more people hear how positive it is for people personally and therefore has to be academically and emotionally and the rest of it, I think the more people will hopefully sort of jump into that because the more we can learn in a way that's supporting people across the board, then that that's going to be a fantastic opportunity.

Speaker A 00:26:43

I agree.

Speaker B 00:26:45

So in terms of what you've learned across this life that you've had so far from the professional side to like say, now being back within sort of the education world, is there an education experience or a teacher that you remembered from way back that had an impact?

Speaker B 00:27:03

And it can be specifically about that impact or how maybe you're then using that in a supportive way in the work that you're doing Now, I have two examples.

Speaker A 00:27:15

One is Mr.

Speaker A 00:27:16

Gizy, who was my, I guess it would be seventh day, ninth grade English teacher.

Speaker A 00:27:22

And we were given an essay to write.

Speaker A 00:27:26

And they day that they were due or after they were due, he came into class one day and he had the essays with him, he had graded them.

Speaker A 00:27:37

And I still really don't know why he said this, but he held up my paper and he goes, now Bob Martin over there.

Speaker A 00:27:46

Bob Martin can take a dirty alleyway in the back streets of Paris and make it beautiful.

Speaker A 00:27:56

I don't know what it was that I wrote.

Speaker A 00:27:59

I don't remember anything but that affirmation.

Speaker A 00:28:06

Well, it.

Speaker A 00:28:08

He wound up being the dedication to my first novel.

Speaker B 00:28:12

Wow, that's a big impact.

Speaker A 00:28:16

So that's a big impact.

Speaker A 00:28:17

So he did.

Speaker A 00:28:18

So there was that.

Speaker A 00:28:19

And then I had another teacher that every morning he came in and every class he started out by saying, hello, good people.

Speaker A 00:28:29

Hello, good people.

Speaker A 00:28:31

Good morning, good people.

Speaker A 00:28:33

And it sounded kind of phony at first, but I'll tell you, at the end of the class, we all thought we were good people.

Speaker A 00:28:45

So those are two things that, you know, were very impactful.

Speaker A 00:28:50

Now never believe or never think that you know.

Speaker A 00:28:56

Another thing, the end of my last meditation class, I always ask them to write a final reflection.

Speaker A 00:29:05

And 15 kids in the class, and out of 15 kids, 12 of them mentioned something that I had said during the class.

Speaker A 00:29:15

I don't even remember saying it.

Speaker A 00:29:20

But what it was was instead of saying I have to do something, maybe just switch it over to I get to do something.

Speaker A 00:29:33

Instead of saying I have to do this assignment, just think of it as I get to do this assignment.

Speaker A 00:29:40

And somehow, for some reason, you know, 12 of them heard that and said that they were never going to forget, that that had changed the way that they think about things.

Speaker A 00:29:52

So you never know.

Speaker A 00:29:54

You never know, you know what's going to, what's going to make that little impact.

Speaker A 00:29:58

I remember, I'm sorry to go on, but I remember my son, my son was in his third freshman year of college and yeah, he was struggling.

Speaker A 00:30:13

He was struggling.

Speaker A 00:30:14

And then all of a sudden he decided he heard about a five year bachelor master's program at his particular school.

Speaker A 00:30:26

And he went.

Speaker A 00:30:28

And we.

Speaker A 00:30:29

It was a small school, and we went and he took a tour and I was with him, and he went in and he talked to the dean and he came out and he looked around and he said, I can do this.

Speaker A 00:30:47

He said, I can do this.

Speaker A 00:30:49

And now he's a licensed clinical social worker.

Speaker A 00:30:53

I mean, he's gone through the whole process and he's been successful at it.

Speaker A 00:30:57

So you never know when the brain's going to solidify.

Speaker A 00:30:59

You never know when the maturity is going to come.

Speaker A 00:31:01

You never know when something that was said 5 years ago all of a sudden has an impact.

Speaker A 00:31:08

You know, we.

Speaker A 00:31:09

We go around and we plant seeds.

Speaker A 00:31:11

We plant a lot of seeds.

Speaker B 00:31:14

I think there were so many things I was going to comment on there, but I think you just sort of summed it up perfectly in, in that last sort of statement.

Speaker B 00:31:20

And I think one of the things I was once told was the fact that you shouldn't overthink these things too much, which I think really sort of supports what you said.

Speaker B 00:31:29

You know, do what you think is right at the time.

Speaker B 00:31:32

Say what you think is right.

Speaker B 00:31:33

Be natural and let the rest of it go.

Speaker B 00:31:36

And, and I think that the, the humanness and the impact that just being authentic is like, that will speak wonders above and beyond the, the nitty gritty or the details of what you're doing.

Speaker B 00:31:47

And I think it's such an important factor to do sort of, I'll do me, you do you, and we'll, we'll make that connection in whichever way it needs to be.

Speaker B 00:31:55

And like I say, when you have multiple people that you're talking, it might be that, like you say, 12 out of 15 people remember one thing, like, without you even realizing.

Speaker B 00:32:03

And it might just be there's one little thing that one person picks up and, yeah, do your day, let them do their day, and see where you come out the other side.

Speaker A 00:32:11

And, and, you know, and, and you can't be thrown by the other side of it.

Speaker A 00:32:16

You know, there's also the other side of it, the one that says, you know, this.

Speaker A 00:32:20

He's.

Speaker A 00:32:21

He's just unorganized, or he's this.

Speaker A 00:32:23

Or, you know, you get these negative things.

Speaker A 00:32:30

I remember there was one student who asked me for these instructions for this assignment, and I gave them to her.

Speaker A 00:32:38

And then she wrote me an email and asked for them again.

Speaker A 00:32:41

And I repeated the instructions.

Speaker A 00:32:43

And then she was in class and she came up to me and she asked me again and I repeated the instructions.

Speaker A 00:32:50

And I think maybe the fifth Time when we were just a day or two out from the deadline, she asked me again.

Speaker A 00:32:57

I sent her back an email and it said really?

Speaker A 00:33:01

R E A L L Y question mark question mark question mark really?

Speaker A 00:33:07

You know.

Speaker A 00:33:08

So I get a letter from the dean saying a student has, you know, complained about your rude mannerisms and said that, you know, really?

Speaker A 00:33:19

So I went back and of course took the whole email sequence and mailed it back to the dean and she said, she said, how did you know which student I I was?

Speaker A 00:33:33

I I when I wrote you, I I I maintained anonymity.

Speaker A 00:33:36

I said there's only one student I.

Speaker B 00:33:44

I love that.

Speaker B 00:33:46

Amazing.

Speaker B 00:33:48

Now, is that a piece of advice that you've been given that you'd like to share or maybe a piece of advice that you might give your, your younger self now that you think would have been supportive or helpful?

Speaker A 00:34:01

Life is hard and then you die.

Speaker A 00:34:05

Now may sound kind of cryptic, but what I mean by that is we are terribly insignificant.

Speaker A 00:34:14

So don't take yourself too seriously.

Speaker A 00:34:16

You know, Carl Sagan did a wonderful little video called A Pale Blue Dot in which he looks back upon the earth from one of Voyager on the other side of Jupiter.

Speaker A 00:34:29

And all this world is, is a pale blue dot hanging in a beam of sunlight.

Speaker A 00:34:34

And, and life is hard and then you die and then that's it.

Speaker A 00:34:38

And so you just make the best of it as you can.

Speaker A 00:34:42

And don't take yourself too seriously because you know, life only has the meaning that you put into it.

Speaker B 00:34:53

Really, really, really powerful.

Speaker B 00:34:54

I think that as well.

Speaker B 00:34:55

And like say you could so easy to overthink so many things and then before you know it, you've done your life and then you realize you haven't made the most of it or enjoyed it or whatever that journey is for you anyway.

Speaker B 00:35:05

So yeah, it's really a lot there for people to think about.

Speaker A 00:35:09

Yeah, somebody, somebody once invited me to this thought experiment where you much longer but the bottom line was you think of yourself on your last day on Earth in your bed, hooked up to your oxygen, with the beepers beeping and for some reason you think back on this presentation particular day.

Speaker A 00:35:32

What is your memory of this day then?

Speaker A 00:35:38

So make each day have some value.

Speaker A 00:35:41

You know, I, I, I, I I, I, I don't mean I'm sorry if I'm going on here, but this is important to me.

Speaker A 00:35:49

I start the day off, I get up in the morning, I have two dogs.

Speaker A 00:35:56

My best advice to anybody is get a dog.

Speaker A 00:36:00

You should have a dog.

Speaker A 00:36:01

Dogs are great.

Speaker A 00:36:02

Dogs are the best Things in the world.

Speaker A 00:36:04

But I take my dogs out to this elementary school before it gets started early in the morning to watch the sun come up.

Speaker A 00:36:10

And every morning I look at the sun coming up and I say and remind myself that I'm trading a day of my life for this day.

Speaker A 00:36:20

The only thing that's going to be left in it is whatever I leave in it.

Speaker A 00:36:24

So I better make it, I better make it worthwhile because I'm trading the day in my life for it.

Speaker B 00:36:31

I really like that.

Speaker B 00:36:32

And I think that conscious decision about what you're going to do, like say whether it's time, whether it's what you're going to eat, whether it's about who you're going to spend it with, what you're going to share, what you're not going to share, what you're putting off, all those things.

Speaker B 00:36:48

And like I say, when you can narrow it down to that, what's today look like, what's it all about for you, then you're making that decision all the time.

Speaker B 00:36:55

And I think even being aware that you're making that decision will probably be a little light switch for some people who are just 20 years have gone by and I'm still doing the same thing without really consciously thinking I can change it or do anything different.

Speaker B 00:37:09

So yeah, I think that's really valuable.

Speaker B 00:37:11

Now, is there a resource you'd like to share?

Speaker B 00:37:13

And this can be personal or professional, but it could be anything from a song, a video book, podcast, film.

Speaker B 00:37:19

There's something that's had an impact or something you think people would like?

Speaker A 00:37:23

Well, I mean as far as things that have been important to me is one thing, but in terms of sharing a resource, I don't mean to be self promoting here, but if you go to my website, I, I've written up two ebooks that are free and downloadable.

Speaker A 00:37:44

No obligation.

Speaker A 00:37:45

There's nothing behind it.

Speaker A 00:37:46

No, no, no, no sales pitch or anything else.

Speaker A 00:37:49

But everybody always asks me, you know, what is meditation and how do you get started and what do you do and how is it done and you know, what are the different kinds of meditation?

Speaker A 00:38:00

So I finally, I just decided let me write it all down in an ebook and you can go to my website and download that ebook and it tells you a lot about meditation.

Speaker A 00:38:11

And I've got another one where I scoured the Internet for 25 different techniques to relax or to de stress with links to the pages where the instructions are.

Speaker A 00:38:27

So if you need to de stress or you want to know more about meditation, just go on to my website and you can download those for free.

Speaker B 00:38:35

Fantastic.

Speaker B 00:38:36

Thanks for sharing that.

Speaker B 00:38:37

Like I said, we'll have links to that in the show notes so people can, can click through as well.

Speaker B 00:38:41

So, I mean, in terms of a wise and happy life, how does that sort of fit in with the university work and do they cross over in any way?

Speaker B 00:38:50

What sort of, that sort of focus for you?

Speaker A 00:38:52

So this is something I've kind of been thinking of lately.

Speaker A 00:38:55

I don't know if this answers your question, but it was what comes up for me, I question.

Speaker A 00:39:04

I think that most of us feel like the great wisdom teachers of the universe.

Speaker A 00:39:10

You know, the, the Lao Tzus and the Confucius and Buddha and the, and Jesus and, and Mahatma Gandhi and Mandela, all these great folks.

Speaker A 00:39:21

You know, we all think that they want us to be good people and to make for better world.

Speaker A 00:39:28

And I, I'm beginning to feel that that really isn't the message.

Speaker A 00:39:34

The message was please be happy.

Speaker A 00:39:39

Because coincidentally, the route to happiness is one of generosity and kindness.

Speaker A 00:39:48

It's one of compassion.

Speaker A 00:39:50

If you think about people that are greedy, they're not happy.

Speaker A 00:39:55

If you think of people that are angry and mean, they're not happy.

Speaker A 00:39:59

And I think that all these wisdom teachers just said, look, please be happy because by the way, it will make you a better person, and by the way, it'll make for a better world, but please be happy.

Speaker B 00:40:15

I think that's incredibly valuable and it's such an important thing to have been said today because there was something on the radio this morning I was listening to, and they were talking about the fact that if you're very sort of self absorbed, but you know, you're sort of stuck within your world and you're struggling and you're looking out, there's a cycle there which you're going to go around.

Speaker B 00:40:39

As soon as you start thinking about the world as in what you can do for other people, how you want to be in the world around your kind of inner little circle that, that you're going around, all of that other stuff disappears because while you're focusing on other people, while you're trying to do something else for somebody else, while you're being part of your community, whatever it happens to be, the rest of that just dissolves away.

Speaker B 00:41:00

And like I say, the result of that is you become happier.

Speaker B 00:41:04

You, you feel the benefits of it that you're doing, and it's a much worse way of articulating than you did, which is, which was perfect.

Speaker B 00:41:13

But it just struck me that, you know, having Heard those things two things twice today.

Speaker B 00:41:17

There's a, there's a, A definite message and something there for me too.

Speaker B 00:41:20

So, yeah, thanks for that.

Speaker A 00:41:22

It's, you know, if we think about our ego, you know, our sense of identity, and when we are lost in a sunset, we are weightless and yet with the slightest insult, we become lost in a mire of anger.

Speaker A 00:41:45

And so it seems that there is a continuum of how important we make our ego and our happiness, which is reversely, you know.

Speaker A 00:41:58

In other words, the more ego we have, the less happy we are.

Speaker B 00:42:03

Yeah.

Speaker A 00:42:03

Then again, I can't say that that's entirely true because you, you can't be a doormat either, you know, you can't just be, you know, willy nilly and just have, you know, everybody.

Speaker A 00:42:15

So there's some kind of balance there.

Speaker A 00:42:16

I'm, I'm still working on it.

Speaker B 00:42:18

Yeah, I, I think that, I think, I think that, I think that is the work, isn't it like saying whatever.

Speaker B 00:42:23

But it's why I wanted to have this conversation so much because I think, you know, specifically from a learning and an educational world, you know, if you're within an institution and you're struggling in whichever way, and it can be very sort of, I'm tick boxing, I wanted to do it differently.

Speaker B 00:42:38

The system's not working for me.

Speaker B 00:42:39

I think so much of what we've talked about will kind of open a different thread of something or a different thought process or way that that can be changed, whether it's through meditation or, or just hearing these sorts of conversations that we're having.

Speaker B 00:42:52

If you're a student that's struggling and just focusing on, you know, the next exam grade or this or that.

Speaker B 00:42:58

I think the same thing applies if you're a parent who's trying to support somebody who may be struggling.

Speaker B 00:43:03

The same thing applies because you suddenly realize there's more to, just more to everybody's connection in everyone's life than just the, the nitty gritty of what we get bogged down in.

Speaker B 00:43:13

And I think, yeah, just opening that door or that window a little bit just to see there's another opportunity, another thought, another conversation, like, say, someone else to listen to a website to go and see a meditation which you've never thought of before, that is maybe something you can explore, whatever that happens to be, is going to be incredibly helpful for people.

Speaker B 00:43:31

So, yeah, I'm really pleased that we've been able to do this.

Speaker B 00:43:35

Now, just as we sort of wrap up, obviously fire is an important part of what we talk about here.

Speaker B 00:43:40

On education on fire.

Speaker B 00:43:41

And by that we mean feedback, inspiration, resilience and empowerment.

Speaker B 00:43:46

Is there one word or a combination of these things that strikes you?

Speaker B 00:43:50

And what is that?

Speaker A 00:43:53

I am attracted to the resilience.

Speaker A 00:44:00

And Alex, if I may explain why that attracts me in, in, in teaching meditation, most people think it has something to do with quieting the mind or quieting our thoughts or some kind of silence or peace or tranquility or lala crystal, you know, tree hugging, hippie, dippy, dumb or something like that.

Speaker A 00:44:21

That.

Speaker A 00:44:22

And most people think that the idea or the purpose is to maintain focus and concentration, but that's not, that's not accurate at all.

Speaker A 00:44:34

It is assumed that your mind will wander and there's all kinds of evolutionary psychological reasons that that happens.

Speaker A 00:44:42

But your mind wanders when you, when you meditate and you notice that it wanders.

Speaker A 00:44:48

And then after all, you hear all the judgments about I wasn't able to maintain focus and everything else, you return back to the object of your focus, which could be your breath or a candle, and you begin again, and then your mind wanders and you notice that it wanders and there's all kinds of judgments and then you quiet down and you begin again and your mind wanders and you notice and you return and you begin again, and you begin again and you begin again.

Speaker A 00:45:17

What people, what many people don't understand about meditation is that it is the returning and the beginning again that builds up in you the quality of resilience.

Speaker A 00:45:33

You learn how to begin again, return and begin again, return and begin again.

Speaker A 00:45:39

And if resilience is anything at all, it's getting back up on the horse after it throws you off.

Speaker A 00:45:46

And that's what meditation teaches you.

Speaker A 00:45:48

So people that meditate become amazingly resilient.

Speaker B 00:45:55

I think that's a beautiful way to finish because I think it's something which I completely identify with and I think on that real kind of human level, the fact that you even notice that what you're thinking is separate to who you are and how you then combine that, understand it, have that within your life.

Speaker B 00:46:17

I mean, there's a whole series of podcasts related to that, which we won't go into now.

Speaker B 00:46:22

But I think it's a really important thing for people to hear.

Speaker B 00:46:25

And if it, if it strikes them in whichever way, then I'm sure they'll go and, and find out more from wherever they're going to do that.

Speaker B 00:46:32

But let's, let's finish with where people can connect with you and like you say, download the PDF and everything.

Speaker A 00:46:40

A wise and happy life.com fantastic.

Speaker B 00:46:45

Bob, thank you so much for being here.

Speaker B 00:46:47

Thank you so much for sharing all that wisdom.

Speaker B 00:46:49

And yeah, it's been inspirational for me listening to your journey in so many different ways.

Speaker B 00:46:55

And I really appreciate your time time.

Speaker A 00:46:57

And I thank you for the work that you do in having a platform like this.

Speaker A 00:47:01

It's not an easy task, it's an act of love.

Speaker A 00:47:04

So thank you.

Speaker B 00:47:05

Appreciate it.

Speaker B 00:47:05

Thanks so much.

Speaker B 00:47:07

Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire.