Unleashing Educational Equity: Dr. Almitra L. Berry’s Journey to Empower Marginalized Learners

Elmitra Berry 00:00:00

The podcast is the Educational Equity Emancipation Podcast, and it's focused on really addressing a lot of the education policy and practices and the challenges that face marginalized learners, in particular in America's public schools.

Elmitra Berry 00:00:18

I still found that there were far too many times where I called it the corporate muzzle that was put on me.

Elmitra Berry 00:00:24

And I could not always say what was in the best interest of children without risking my job.

Elmitra Berry 00:00:32

The culturally competent educator walks teachers through developing cultural competency with the communities that they serve, connecting with their students, creating those safe spaces, a psychologically safe space in the classroom so that every child can receive instruction and thrive.

Elmitra Berry 00:00:51

We so often forget to go back and thank those teachers who've made a tremendous impact.

Elmitra Berry 00:00:56

I'm in a new school.

Elmitra Berry 00:00:57

I've had this horrible trauma.

Elmitra Berry 00:00:58

I'm in this room, a classroom where I'm very, very shy.

Elmitra Berry 00:01:02

Not anymore, clearly, but at the time is very, very shy, withdrawn and traumatized.

Elmitra Berry 00:01:08

But she saw me, not the way I would describe myself right now.

Elmitra Berry 00:01:14

In that, in that frame, she saw my potential.

Elmitra Berry 00:01:19

Don't ever let anyone tell you what you can or cannot do, right?

Elmitra Berry 00:01:23

Don't ever let anyone else put limits on your ability and your future accomplishments.

Elmitra Berry 00:01:29

Don't ever stop fighting.

Elmitra Berry 00:01:31

If it's something you want, go for it, and don't let anyone put limits on it.

Elmitra Berry 00:01:36

There's just so many different ways that kids can show what they know besides writing an essay.

Elmitra Berry 00:01:42

I think it's a wonderful time to be able to get children to express themselves and their knowledge in ways that we never could before.

Elmitra Berry 00:01:50

And we, as educators, we need to tap into that.

Mark Taylor 00:01:55

That was Dr.

Mark Taylor 00:01:56

Elmitra L.

Mark Taylor 00:01:57

Berry.

Mark Taylor 00:01:57

She's a consultant, podcaster, author.

Mark Taylor 00:01:59

We have a wonderful conversation about our shared passion about child centered, child focused education and her journey about how she's been able to do that and make such an impact in the world.

Mark Taylor 00:02:09

Thank you to the national association for Primary Education for their continual support of the show and I hope you enjoy this as much as I did.

Mark Taylor 00:02:17

Hello, my name is Mark Taylor and welcome to the Education on Fire podcast, the place for creative and inspiring learning from around the world.

Mark Taylor 00:02:31

Listen to teachers, parents and mentors, share how they are supporting children to live their best, authentic life and are proving to be a guiding light to us all.

Mark Taylor 00:02:39

Elmitria, thank you so much for joining us here on the Education on Fire podcast.

Mark Taylor 00:02:44

It's always great to speak to people across the pond, so to speak, but also people that are fellow podcasters and just sort of love sharing their message around the world, which is a fantastic thing.

Mark Taylor 00:02:53

I Think for every.

Mark Taylor 00:02:54

Everybody listening.

Mark Taylor 00:02:54

So, yeah, thanks so much for joining us here today.

Elmitra Berry 00:02:57

Thank you for having me.

Mark Taylor 00:02:59

So why don't we start with the podcast?

Mark Taylor 00:03:01

Tell us a little bit about that and what it is that you're.

Mark Taylor 00:03:03

You're telling people as they.

Mark Taylor 00:03:05

As they go through your journey.

Elmitra Berry 00:03:07

Sure.

Elmitra Berry 00:03:08

Well, the podcast is the Educational Equity Emancipation Podcast, and it's focused on really addressing a lot of the education policy and practices and the challenges that face marginalized learners, in particular in America's public schools.

Elmitra Berry 00:03:26

When we talk marginalized, and I know since we are across the pond from one another, our children of color are children who have come to the United States from other countries, children who may be born in the United States but speak a language at home that is not the English that is spoken in school, whether it's English or another world language or a heritage language.

Elmitra Berry 00:03:49

And then unfortunately, if you're familiar with America's politics, there are a lot of things that are happening to schools and in schools that adversely affect a lot of children.

Elmitra Berry 00:04:00

So really focusing on what's happening, their needs, and when there is nothing horrible happening, which unfortunately is not often enough, then I get to focus on my first love, which is providing good, high quality education for children.

Mark Taylor 00:04:16

Amazing.

Mark Taylor 00:04:16

So where did that passion come from?

Mark Taylor 00:04:18

Where did the sort of the education background start?

Elmitra Berry 00:04:21

Yeah, well, I was a classroom teacher first.

Elmitra Berry 00:04:24

It was actually a second career.

Elmitra Berry 00:04:26

My mother threatened me when I got out of college.

Elmitra Berry 00:04:28

She said I could not live at home for free unless I got a teaching credential, which is not what I intended to do with my life.

Elmitra Berry 00:04:35

But as life has it, I found my way to a classroom and absolutely fell in love with teaching and working with children.

Elmitra Berry 00:04:44

But I have this thing on me called a mouth and an opinion.

Elmitra Berry 00:04:47

And it was difficult for me to be quiet when I saw things happening that were not in the best interest of the children that we were supposed to serve.

Elmitra Berry 00:04:55

So ultimately, I left the classroom and worked in educational services, educational publishing, and I got to go into schools across the country, in Canada, across the Caribbean, where I could work with teachers who were serving children and help them become better practitioners for all of the children that they served.

Elmitra Berry 00:05:16

So that's where all of that comes from.

Elmitra Berry 00:05:18

Yeah, and I saw a lot.

Mark Taylor 00:05:20

Yeah, I love that because, well, it struck a chord with me, that kind of having an opinion and having to sort of work within the system and the framework of that.

Mark Taylor 00:05:30

How far do you go?

Mark Taylor 00:05:31

How far do you try and make a difference within the setup that you are?

Mark Taylor 00:05:34

But also, you know, like I say, where your voice is best heard.

Mark Taylor 00:05:37

And I love the fact that people are able to kind of take themselves out of it, but still give so much value and help sort of, I don't know, mold the education system with a child first, a child centered idea of education, because then you start to feel like you're making a real difference, I think.

Elmitra Berry 00:05:53

Yeah, yeah, it's, you know, it's still hard for me to keep my mouth shut.

Elmitra Berry 00:05:56

That's why I have a podcast even in corporate America working, you know, as I did there, as much as I enjoyed the work, I still found that there were far too many times where I called it the corporate muzzle that was put on me.

Elmitra Berry 00:06:09

And I could not always say what was in the best interest of children without risking my job.

Elmitra Berry 00:06:14

So it just became easier, say, you know what, I've been around long enough, I've made enough contacts, I can do what I'm doing outside of the corporate arena and still serve children.

Elmitra Berry 00:06:25

And so I became an independent consultant, started my own little business, and somewhere along the line, this idea of podcasting came.

Elmitra Berry 00:06:32

And I guess I took to it sort of as a debt to water.

Mark Taylor 00:06:36

As it were, and take us into the world of being a consultant.

Mark Taylor 00:06:42

And I know as an author and as a speaker, all of these things, they sort of come from the same space, but there are sort of different outlets in different ways, aren't they?

Mark Taylor 00:06:50

So sort of talk about what that's like to be able to sort of live that life with those sort of different identities.

Elmitra Berry 00:06:56

Yeah.

Elmitra Berry 00:06:56

Well, I'll tell you one thing, it is not at all glamorous.

Elmitra Berry 00:06:59

And that's what a lot of people think, that, wow, you get to travel all over and you get to see a lot of things and it's like, yes, But I wouldn't say I get to travel.

Elmitra Berry 00:07:06

I have to travel.

Elmitra Berry 00:07:09

Working with schools as a consultant gives me an opportunity to.

Elmitra Berry 00:07:14

To dig in a different multiple ways.

Elmitra Berry 00:07:16

Right.

Elmitra Berry 00:07:16

So I get to look at classrooms, which always just brings a smile to my face.

Elmitra Berry 00:07:20

To see kids learning just fuels me, and it fuels my passion when they are not learning as well as they should.

Elmitra Berry 00:07:27

So I get to work with teachers and help them understand the importance of being a practitioner that is culturally aware, culturally competent, and serving the needs of the children that are in front of them.

Elmitra Berry 00:07:37

And sometimes that is a little bit at odds to what we're taught when we go through teacher credentialing or teachers college.

Elmitra Berry 00:07:48

So I write because of the writing.

Elmitra Berry 00:07:52

I do a lot of speaking.

Elmitra Berry 00:07:54

Sometimes the speaking means that people say, hey, we want you to come into our school and work with our teachers directly or into our classrooms.

Elmitra Berry 00:08:01

So it's sort of like the three are intertwined and enmeshed, and each one feeds the other.

Elmitra Berry 00:08:07

It's really a unique place to be.

Elmitra Berry 00:08:09

I'll say it is.

Elmitra Berry 00:08:10

It is not for the weak of heart or faint of heart, because it's not easy work.

Elmitra Berry 00:08:17

I have seen things across this country that make me sad that I'll try and use.

Elmitra Berry 00:08:25

I always say I try and use my in school vocabulary that anger me, that frustrate me, but that also drive my passion.

Elmitra Berry 00:08:33

And it just.

Elmitra Berry 00:08:34

It's a continuous reminder that my work is not done.

Mark Taylor 00:08:37

Yeah.

Mark Taylor 00:08:38

And I really identify with that because the reason this podcast started was because I was going into multiple schools doing music.

Mark Taylor 00:08:44

I'm a professional musician.

Mark Taylor 00:08:45

I was going in doing workshops within schools as well.

Mark Taylor 00:08:48

And there was always that teacher in the staff room, almost literally banging their head against a brick wall, going, I got in it to support children, to help change lives, you know, to give people a real good start in life.

Mark Taylor 00:08:59

And I'm caught in the system.

Mark Taylor 00:09:01

You know, I'm tick boxing.

Mark Taylor 00:09:02

I'm testing all of that kind of stuff.

Mark Taylor 00:09:04

And I, in the same way, like, you get angry about what's going on.

Mark Taylor 00:09:07

But I was fortunate enough to be able to see something interesting or something unique or something positive happening in a different school.

Mark Taylor 00:09:15

And I thought, well, if I could just share that message, maybe it's something they could change immediately.

Mark Taylor 00:09:20

Maybe it's something or a program they could take to their senior leadership to talk about, but at least it suddenly means you don't feel quite so isolated.

Mark Taylor 00:09:26

And I think that was the real gift of seeing all the positives, but also about being one step removed.

Elmitra Berry 00:09:32

Yeah.

Elmitra Berry 00:09:32

I'll tell you, as a classroom teacher, you do.

Elmitra Berry 00:09:35

You can very often feel isolated, like you're the only one who understands that other people aren't, you know, don't seem to have the same vested interest as I do in what happens in my classroom.

Elmitra Berry 00:09:47

It's certainly something that I felt often.

Elmitra Berry 00:09:51

And part of what drove me out of the classroom to that next step, to be able to do good things for more children than just the 25 that I had in my classroom each year.

Elmitra Berry 00:10:02

But, yeah, it's.

Elmitra Berry 00:10:03

It's teaching can be extraordinarily rewarding, but also extraordinarily lonely.

Elmitra Berry 00:10:10

And what I, you know, one of the things I find most humorous, and you probably do, too, is that everyone thinks that their situation is unique in their school.

Elmitra Berry 00:10:19

But I.

Elmitra Berry 00:10:20

I said, you know, after it's been, oh, 20, this is 2024.

Elmitra Berry 00:10:26

So it's been been 22 years that I've been doing this.

Elmitra Berry 00:10:30

Gosh, 22 years.

Elmitra Berry 00:10:33

And I stopped counting after I had worked with 700 different school systems here in the U.S.

Elmitra Berry 00:10:38

so it's like, honey, I've seen it all.

Elmitra Berry 00:10:40

I have been pretty much everywhere.

Elmitra Berry 00:10:42

I still have four of the United States to get to, but I, I have worked with school Systems in, in 46 of our 50 plus, you know, you got Canada and some, some of the countries across the Caribbean.

Elmitra Berry 00:10:54

It is the same everywhere.

Elmitra Berry 00:10:56

It really is.

Elmitra Berry 00:10:58

And that's both fortunate that we know what's happening and that because we know what's happening, we also know what is working and what is not working.

Elmitra Berry 00:11:07

So we have information to address it when we see somewhere else.

Elmitra Berry 00:11:11

But it's also unfortunate that it is still happening.

Elmitra Berry 00:11:15

Right?

Elmitra Berry 00:11:16

We are still seeing failures and damage done to children.

Elmitra Berry 00:11:19

Yeah.

Mark Taylor 00:11:20

I mean, it really is mind boggling, isn't it, when it's so obvious in so many ways but no one's able to step forward and just steer the ship in a different direction.

Mark Taylor 00:11:28

I think partly because it's all about what's going to happen next month or next week or certainly I know you've got elections coming up and all of that sort of thing.

Mark Taylor 00:11:36

These cycles happen so fast that it's really, really hard to kind of say, we know that if we do this now in 5 years, 10 years, 15 years, we're going to be in a very different place and support everyone on that journey.

Elmitra Berry 00:11:48

Yeah.

Elmitra Berry 00:11:48

You know, I have too often said we know what to do, we've seen it work.

Elmitra Berry 00:11:56

Why are we still not doing it right?

Elmitra Berry 00:11:58

If we just follow the science, if we just do what's right, I could retire.

Elmitra Berry 00:12:04

I've been saying I could retire for 22 years because we know what to do.

Elmitra Berry 00:12:09

If y'all would just follow instructions, I could retire.

Elmitra Berry 00:12:13

But here I am still.

Mark Taylor 00:12:16

So that takes me into the question, which I'm fascinated about, almost where we started in terms of the system and how you work within it.

Mark Taylor 00:12:24

Because as you said, you know, you're in this ideal position or unique position where you can kind of dip in and out of any given school, support, give them the information they need to help them.

Mark Taylor 00:12:34

But for those people that are still within the system, what, how is it that you're helping and what is it that you're saying and how are you making a difference?

Mark Taylor 00:12:42

While I'm assuming they're still frustrated or they're still within that kind of almost Handcuffed situation.

Elmitra Berry 00:12:49

Yeah.

Elmitra Berry 00:12:49

Well, the first thing and the biggest thing that I always talk about is culture.

Elmitra Berry 00:12:54

You know, what's the culture of the system that you're working in and what can we do to shift the culture so that it's healthy?

Elmitra Berry 00:13:02

The other is psychological safety.

Elmitra Berry 00:13:05

Developing that not just as a school system or a school, but all the way down into your class.

Elmitra Berry 00:13:12

Because just because it's.

Elmitra Berry 00:13:14

It's challenging at a system level doesn't mean that you can't make some adjustments within your classroom.

Elmitra Berry 00:13:21

You know, teachers who have tremendous autonomy as to what goes on in their classroom can create that place and that space in the classrooms that they're in.

Elmitra Berry 00:13:30

And yes, you still are going to have to deal with the bureaucracy and the politics and the culture of what is your school, but that's a place that I always like to start, and that's creating that culture in your classroom and working towards having a psychologically safe space for every single child to learn.

Elmitra Berry 00:13:49

I also work on building community.

Elmitra Berry 00:13:51

Right.

Elmitra Berry 00:13:52

Because we don't want to feel like we're the only ones and that we're isolated.

Elmitra Berry 00:13:55

So I have started.

Elmitra Berry 00:13:57

It's sort of a new project for me, building a community on Patreon where teachers can talk to one another, where they engage in book study, where we can have conversations.

Elmitra Berry 00:14:07

So it's sort of fledgling, but in time, in time, just building that safe space in a community online for other people to come in and plug in and sort of dip in and dip out as they need to, to get that.

Elmitra Berry 00:14:19

Those, you know, the affirmations, some.

Elmitra Berry 00:14:21

Some assistance that they might need, whether it's through book study or watching a webinar or just, you know, having a conversation with someone else that's in that community that's, you know, working towards the same goals.

Mark Taylor 00:14:34

I really love that because I think one of the things as a podcast, do you feel, is that you're often sharing this information and you might have a community, whether it's a Facebook group or something like that, where you kind of having these conversations.

Mark Taylor 00:14:47

But I think having a proper safe space where you can communicate, sometimes you need support as a teacher coming in, but, you know, the next week you're in a good place and it's someone else that needs that support and being able to be open and share where, you know that honesty is going to be helpful across the board.

Mark Taylor 00:15:03

I think that's very powerful.

Mark Taylor 00:15:04

But it's also something which is a bit of a gift, to be honest.

Elmitra Berry 00:15:07

Honestly.

Elmitra Berry 00:15:08

It is, yeah.

Elmitra Berry 00:15:09

And it's challenging.

Elmitra Berry 00:15:11

You know, it's it's challenging for people to find that space and to feel comfortable in it, but it's something that.

Elmitra Berry 00:15:17

That we have to have.

Elmitra Berry 00:15:18

And, you know, maybe you like me.

Elmitra Berry 00:15:19

Sometimes when I'm podcasting, I just feel like, is anybody hearing this right?

Elmitra Berry 00:15:24

Who am I talking to?

Elmitra Berry 00:15:25

I sort of speaking it out into the ether and not always knowing did it make a difference.

Elmitra Berry 00:15:32

But I.

Elmitra Berry 00:15:32

I do understand because people have come back and said, you know, when you said whatever it was on whatever episode, and I'm like, maybe because there is so much in terms of content and things that I say, you know, you do this once a week.

Elmitra Berry 00:15:47

There's a lot of stuff that you say.

Elmitra Berry 00:15:50

But when someone tells me that they heard me say X, Y and Z, and it really made a difference in how they, you know, adjusted their practice or how they saw things working or something that they could say or assist with or whatever it was, it touched them and made a difference.

Elmitra Berry 00:16:08

Again, this, you know, it's like me seeing kids in the classroom that are learning.

Elmitra Berry 00:16:11

It continues to fuel me and keep going.

Mark Taylor 00:16:13

Yeah.

Mark Taylor 00:16:14

And interestingly, that.

Mark Taylor 00:16:15

Because that's one of the reasons I started doing some of my live shows was because I wanted some of that interaction.

Mark Taylor 00:16:21

So we've been able to stream onto YouTube where people can interact in the comments.

Mark Taylor 00:16:25

You can bring them up, you can have multiple people as part of your conversation going on.

Mark Taylor 00:16:30

You really get that immediacy, which is something I really like.

Mark Taylor 00:16:33

I think that's the performer, the musician in me.

Mark Taylor 00:16:35

It's.

Mark Taylor 00:16:35

It's that live element, which is something that I really enjoy.

Mark Taylor 00:16:39

But, yeah, I can certainly understand what you're saying there.

Elmitra Berry 00:16:42

Yeah, I'm not that skilled yet.

Elmitra Berry 00:16:46

I'll get there.

Elmitra Berry 00:16:47

Baby steps.

Mark Taylor 00:16:48

Exactly.

Mark Taylor 00:16:48

We should come on our show, first of all, and then you can come on as a guest and share those conversations with some people.

Mark Taylor 00:16:53

And then we enter into that world together.

Mark Taylor 00:16:55

Fantastic.

Mark Taylor 00:16:56

So take us into your new book.

Mark Taylor 00:16:59

And I'm fascinated as to how you approached it and specifically how you organized it.

Elmitra Berry 00:17:06

Yeah.

Elmitra Berry 00:17:07

So the book that's coming out this spring, there's a bit of a hiccup, and I have shifted publishers.

Elmitra Berry 00:17:12

It will now be released by Corwin.

Elmitra Berry 00:17:15

And was the title.

Elmitra Berry 00:17:17

We just.

Elmitra Berry 00:17:17

We just came up with a new title, the Culturally Competent Educator.

Elmitra Berry 00:17:21

And it.

Elmitra Berry 00:17:23

It really comes from that work that I was doing.

Elmitra Berry 00:17:26

Where I was, what I was seeing was that teachers were not connected to the children that they serve.

Elmitra Berry 00:17:32

Sure, they could go in, they could teach a lesson.

Elmitra Berry 00:17:34

They could deal with the lesson plans and delivery and data, but not really connecting at a level with their children and understanding who their children were and what they brought to school that needed to be valued.

Elmitra Berry 00:17:49

And probably the biggest amongst that, what I found has been the language that they come to school with, which has now fueled the research that I'm doing for another book.

Elmitra Berry 00:18:01

But the culturally competent educator walks teachers through developing cultural competency with the communities that they serve, connecting with their students, creating those safe spaces, a psychologically safe space in the classroom so that every child can receive instruction and thrive in that space.

Elmitra Berry 00:18:19

I go through grading systems, developing a syllabus, some of the things that you can do in lessons that will help to develop that sense of community, and respecting every child in the culture that they come from.

Elmitra Berry 00:18:34

So it's really a sort of a step by step how to.

Elmitra Berry 00:18:37

For all of the things that you in the classroom that touch the lives of children.

Elmitra Berry 00:18:42

And, you know, this one was a little bit easier than the last one because last one or last two have focused on really specifically narrowly on instructional practice.

Elmitra Berry 00:18:51

And that meant I had to keep it, you know, like, for elementary teachers.

Elmitra Berry 00:18:54

So this one is K12, which I'm really excited about.

Elmitra Berry 00:18:57

So it doesn't matter if you teach the Littles or you teach the ones that are, you know, about to enter the world of adult life and work.

Elmitra Berry 00:19:05

There's something.

Elmitra Berry 00:19:06

There's a lot in it for everyone.

Elmitra Berry 00:19:08

So I'm really excited about it coming out.

Elmitra Berry 00:19:10

And we are looking at April as a firm release date.

Mark Taylor 00:19:13

Amazing.

Mark Taylor 00:19:14

And.

Mark Taylor 00:19:15

And I think that the seed there I find really fascinating because it's.

Mark Taylor 00:19:18

The one thing I hear quite a lot is the episodes go by here on the show in terms of.

Mark Taylor 00:19:24

It's that knowing who your children are exactly like you said.

Mark Taylor 00:19:27

And it might just be, you know, the fact that they had a football match over the weekend or, you know, there's something going on, or there's how their siblings work or they're.

Mark Taylor 00:19:35

One of their parents maybe works away or one of them is sick or whatever it happens to be.

Mark Taylor 00:19:39

And then all of a sudden it's not about learning maths or English or science or whatever it happens to be.

Mark Taylor 00:19:44

It's about how are you today in that way that I know you, you know me, you know, respectfully, in the different sort of ways that we're relating at school, but it suddenly becomes a whole different ballgame.

Mark Taylor 00:19:54

Because I say the trust is there, the honesty is there, the understanding is there, and that human connection.

Mark Taylor 00:20:00

And from that point you can do anything, I think, and you're just, you know, your specific situation and what you're talking about, you know, is obviously a much wider, much deeper understanding.

Mark Taylor 00:20:10

I can see how those sort of correlations must really work together.

Elmitra Berry 00:20:14

Yeah.

Elmitra Berry 00:20:14

You know, I always.

Elmitra Berry 00:20:17

Pretty much everything that I do is inspired by something I've seen or a story.

Elmitra Berry 00:20:22

Right.

Elmitra Berry 00:20:22

Where some of us are just, I guess, natural storytellers.

Elmitra Berry 00:20:25

And one of the things, or there were so many, but there was this one girl, I had one year, and the last day of school, she just would not leave the classroom.

Elmitra Berry 00:20:35

I'm like, sweetheart, it's the end of the year, it's last day of school, we're all done, it's time to go home.

Elmitra Berry 00:20:40

And she literally was white knuckled on the desk.

Elmitra Berry 00:20:43

She was just gripping her desk so hard.

Elmitra Berry 00:20:46

And when I asked her what was wrong, she said she really loved it there.

Elmitra Berry 00:20:50

That was her place, that was her space, the one place in her world where she felt safe.

Elmitra Berry 00:20:56

And the idea of leaving that classroom for the summer and then she'd be going on to another school the following year was scary for her.

Elmitra Berry 00:21:08

And so as much as I, on the last day of school, was happy the school year is over, it's time for my break as well, I just let her stay.

Elmitra Berry 00:21:16

And it caused me to reflect a lot on recognizing how important our space in the classroom is for our children, because sometimes it is the only safe space that they have.

Elmitra Berry 00:21:29

And so I put a lot of time and thought and energy into addressing that safe space environment in a classroom and becoming culturally competent as an educator so that you really, truly could connect with a child on multiple levels and see them and understand them and have them feel safe coming to you to say, you know what?

Elmitra Berry 00:21:52

This is my one and only safe space.

Elmitra Berry 00:21:54

Or I had to.

Elmitra Berry 00:21:57

I had to work in the fields this weekend.

Elmitra Berry 00:21:59

I can't write because my hands are raw because I was picking crops this weekend with my family.

Elmitra Berry 00:22:05

The things that my children would say, you know, we're living in our car, we lost our house, I'm tired, I can't sleep because we're living on the street.

Elmitra Berry 00:22:14

These things that, you know, as an educator, we typically is not happening to us personally.

Elmitra Berry 00:22:23

We get to leave and go to the comfort of our homes every night, but our children don't.

Elmitra Berry 00:22:27

And if we're not seeing all that they're going through and respecting my God, at least they showed up today.

Elmitra Berry 00:22:35

So what can I do to have this child continue to learn given the situation that they're in?

Elmitra Berry 00:22:42

And that does not happen.

Elmitra Berry 00:22:43

That doesn't happen unless you're able to connect with that child on a deep level.

Mark Taylor 00:22:48

And I think the amazing thing is, is that you have to kind of care.

Mark Taylor 00:22:52

Care and not care.

Mark Taylor 00:22:54

That's the wrong phrase, but it's that kind of.

Mark Taylor 00:22:55

You have to be fully aware of that and be open to it.

Mark Taylor 00:22:59

But at the same time, it also just be another day because otherwise you get completely wound into the whole thing as well, don't you?

Mark Taylor 00:23:05

Sort of.

Mark Taylor 00:23:06

You create that space.

Mark Taylor 00:23:07

It's like a home, I think.

Mark Taylor 00:23:08

You know, day to day, it seems like it's the same things happening, but it's the little bits of everything that you give to the house do.

Mark Taylor 00:23:14

You give to your children, you give to the rest of your family.

Mark Taylor 00:23:16

That makes up the sense of what a home is and how that feels, which I think sort of works in that same kind of way.

Mark Taylor 00:23:23

And also it makes a mockery of this whole thing that you're now age 10 and we're going to take this test because this is what you should be doing, which isn't the same for this child who's age 10 and this child who, like you say, is living in a car and is worried about where they're going to get their next meal from, as opposed to the child that happens to be in a wealthy family and hasn't even ever had to think about where the next meal is going to come from.

Mark Taylor 00:23:44

The two things are just completely different.

Mark Taylor 00:23:46

And it just, like I say, it's not that we don't know this, it's just that why is it not changed?

Elmitra Berry 00:23:51

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Elmitra Berry 00:23:54

So I can retire.

Mark Taylor 00:23:56

Exactly right.

Mark Taylor 00:23:57

Yeah, exactly.

Mark Taylor 00:23:58

I like that as a banner idea as well.

Mark Taylor 00:24:01

Get to retire and then we know education is sorted.

Mark Taylor 00:24:05

It's a much easier slogan.

Mark Taylor 00:24:06

Fantastic.

Mark Taylor 00:24:08

I'm always fascinated when I chat to people, especially working in this sort of way in education.

Mark Taylor 00:24:13

Is there a teacher or an education experience that you remember that had an influence and also how has that kind of worked within the way that you understand education or the way that you now work and what that sort of meant to you?

Elmitra Berry 00:24:25

Yeah, that's an easy one.

Elmitra Berry 00:24:28

In fact, I just.

Elmitra Berry 00:24:29

I just wrote the dedication for the book that's coming out and I dedicated it to her.

Elmitra Berry 00:24:34

It was my third grade teacher.

Elmitra Berry 00:24:36

Her name was Mrs.

Elmitra Berry 00:24:37

Gowdy.

Elmitra Berry 00:24:38

I actually have a keynote that I do.

Elmitra Berry 00:24:40

Thank you, Mrs.

Elmitra Berry 00:24:40

Gowdy, because we so often forget to go back and thank those teachers who've made a tremendous impact, a difference in our lives.

Elmitra Berry 00:24:48

But she was my third grade teacher in the States.

Elmitra Berry 00:24:51

That made me eight, nine years old that year, and she happened to have me the year after I saw my father shot to death.

Elmitra Berry 00:24:59

So we think about childhood trauma and how children present at school after.

Elmitra Berry 00:25:04

After going through a trauma.

Elmitra Berry 00:25:07

She saw me.

Elmitra Berry 00:25:09

She believed in me.

Elmitra Berry 00:25:10

And it was a new school for me.

Elmitra Berry 00:25:11

On top of everything else, I'm in a new school.

Elmitra Berry 00:25:13

I've had this horrible trauma.

Elmitra Berry 00:25:15

I'm in this room, a classroom, where I'm very, very shy.

Elmitra Berry 00:25:18

Not anymore, clearly, but at the time, is very, very shy, withdrawn and traumatized.

Elmitra Berry 00:25:24

But she saw me not the way I would describe myself right now.

Elmitra Berry 00:25:31

In that.

Elmitra Berry 00:25:31

In that frame, she saw my potential.

Elmitra Berry 00:25:35

And I was, in terms of reading ability, was way ahead of the rest of the class.

Elmitra Berry 00:25:40

And so she gave me what we now call differentiated instruction.

Elmitra Berry 00:25:45

She created content for me to work with that was at my level.

Elmitra Berry 00:25:49

But beyond that, she gave me books to read that were of black men and women.

Elmitra Berry 00:25:56

I know this is an audio podcast, and folks can't see me.

Elmitra Berry 00:25:59

I am a black woman.

Elmitra Berry 00:26:01

Mrs.

Elmitra Berry 00:26:02

Gowdy was a white woman, and it was 1970, so it was not the environment that we have now where we're very conscious about children and their cultural backgrounds.

Elmitra Berry 00:26:11

But she created this whole series of lessons for the course of the year so that I could connect to something that was meaningful to me and at the same time, learn and grow and really stretch my abilities far beyond grade level.

Elmitra Berry 00:26:31

I didn't think about it at that time, but as an educator, you know, in reflecting and going back, who was, you know, who was that person?

Elmitra Berry 00:26:40

Where did things change?

Elmitra Berry 00:26:42

Or what made you really and truly connect and fall in love with school?

Elmitra Berry 00:26:46

Every single time I go back to that third grade classroom with Mrs.

Elmitra Berry 00:26:49

Gowdy.

Mark Taylor 00:26:51

That's amazing.

Mark Taylor 00:26:51

And.

Mark Taylor 00:26:52

And after such a traumatized situation, I mean, I can't imagine.

Mark Taylor 00:26:56

And.

Mark Taylor 00:26:57

And thank you for sharing that.

Mark Taylor 00:26:59

What kind of support do you get or did you get then, or how did that sort of play itself out in terms of your growth and your learning and how you then wanted to show up in the world?

Elmitra Berry 00:27:10

Yeah, as I think back, there were no supports.

Elmitra Berry 00:27:16

There was.

Elmitra Berry 00:27:17

You know, we're talking about 1970, 1969, 1970, and in the black community, mental health is something that too often is not talked about or addressed.

Elmitra Berry 00:27:27

But, you know, back then, we didn't have access in America, black people did not have access to mental health and those types of supports, and there certainly wasn't anything offered in school.

Elmitra Berry 00:27:40

If I ever saw a counselor in school about that, I certainly don't remember.

Elmitra Berry 00:27:44

And I know I talked to my mom about it as an adult, and There just wasn't.

Elmitra Berry 00:27:49

But I was such a little bookworm even before then.

Elmitra Berry 00:27:53

I've always loved to read that.

Elmitra Berry 00:27:56

Her finding that thing that I loved so much in terms of reading just made a really, really big difference.

Elmitra Berry 00:28:04

When I think about how I saw myself in the world then, I just wanted to be.

Elmitra Berry 00:28:09

I wanted to, like, withdraw into the background and just, you know, be part of the wallpaper and not have anyone notice me.

Elmitra Berry 00:28:15

Because, honestly, Mark, the most painful thing for someone to ask me at that time.

Elmitra Berry 00:28:20

And I think about this when we talk about the assignments we give our children, when somebody would say, well, what does your daddy do for a living?

Elmitra Berry 00:28:29

Right?

Elmitra Berry 00:28:30

And so when teachers say, you know, sort of the first assignment that they give at the beginning of the year is, you know, what did your family do during the summer?

Elmitra Berry 00:28:38

It pains me because I think about kids who don't really, you know, they may not have a family, they may be fostered.

Elmitra Berry 00:28:45

We don't know all of the things that go on in their lives or they ask them to, you know, do research on your family tree.

Elmitra Berry 00:28:52

And, you know, that information isn't always there.

Elmitra Berry 00:28:56

And that's why I'm, you know, so big on knowing your children and becoming culturally connected and culturally competent so that you see these things and you don't.

Elmitra Berry 00:29:06

You know, while it's.

Elmitra Berry 00:29:07

It's not intentional that you are harming them, you are sort of stirring up very often trauma that causes children to withdraw.

Mark Taylor 00:29:18

And I guess that all comes down partly, like we said, to knowing the children in your class, but also just awareness, that idea of empathy, of understanding.

Mark Taylor 00:29:28

And I guess, you know, that's where, like you said, you have a certain amount of autonomy in your classrooms and as being educators as well.

Mark Taylor 00:29:35

And actually, that's why, you know, that's why I love this medium.

Mark Taylor 00:29:38

You know, all those people who are listening who are going to say, I could just tweak the way I do this or the way that I think about this, or how I'm going to show up for everybody, even.

Mark Taylor 00:29:47

Even if that's just like, say, the beginning of the year or at certain times of the year, because, you know, it happens to be Mother's Day, Father's Day, you know, Christmas, which or whatever it happens to be, it's all going to have a different thing.

Mark Taylor 00:29:56

So understanding how you want to show up as part of that in relation to everybody else just changes the whole experience for you as well as them.

Elmitra Berry 00:30:05

Yeah, yeah.

Elmitra Berry 00:30:06

It's amazing how much we learn when we sort of tap into the experiences that our children Are having.

Mark Taylor 00:30:12

Yeah.

Mark Taylor 00:30:13

Is there a piece of advice you'd like to share?

Mark Taylor 00:30:16

And this can be something which has been said to you, but it might be maybe something you might say to your younger self.

Mark Taylor 00:30:21

Now, looking back as a more experienced person, shall we say.

Elmitra Berry 00:30:26

Yeah, I love that.

Elmitra Berry 00:30:27

What would you say to your younger self?

Elmitra Berry 00:30:29

It's like, how young?

Elmitra Berry 00:30:30

Because we're quite seasoned or I guess the word now is vintage is what we are.

Elmitra Berry 00:30:37

But when I think about that and I think about my school age self, I would say don't ever let anyone tell you what you can or cannot do.

Elmitra Berry 00:30:46

Right.

Elmitra Berry 00:30:46

Don't ever let anyone else put limits on your ability and your future accomplishments.

Elmitra Berry 00:30:52

Unfortunately, I didn't learn that lesson until I actually was going to grad school, about to go, or attempting to go to grad school, and I was rejected by a university that I was applying to to go to teachers College.

Elmitra Berry 00:31:07

And I thought I went to a top tier university.

Elmitra Berry 00:31:09

I went to one of the top 10 public universities in the US and I graduated in four and a half years, a little bit longer, but still I graduated.

Elmitra Berry 00:31:18

And you university that is not even ranked in the top 100 are telling me that you don't want me.

Elmitra Berry 00:31:24

So I had to fight, right?

Elmitra Berry 00:31:26

I had to fight to get in.

Elmitra Berry 00:31:28

And I just had to, you know, it's like you cannot judge my abilities based on a transcript.

Elmitra Berry 00:31:35

So give me a shot.

Elmitra Berry 00:31:36

Which they, you know, they did.

Elmitra Berry 00:31:38

And I got provisional admission.

Elmitra Berry 00:31:43

And because of that, it's like I have this I'm going to show you attitude.

Elmitra Berry 00:31:48

And I graduated with a 4.0 perfect GPA and the highest rated portfolio that they had in the history of the teachers college.

Elmitra Berry 00:31:58

Right?

Elmitra Berry 00:31:58

So it's like, don't let anyone tell you you can't.

Elmitra Berry 00:32:02

I could have taken that rejection and said, oh well, I guess I'll just never be a teacher.

Elmitra Berry 00:32:07

But instead I chose to fight.

Elmitra Berry 00:32:10

And so I tell young people, don't, don't ever stop fighting.

Elmitra Berry 00:32:15

If it's something you want, go for it.

Elmitra Berry 00:32:17

And don't let anyone put limits on it.

Elmitra Berry 00:32:19

And if you need help or support or advice, it's out there now and it's the kids now.

Elmitra Berry 00:32:25

People now have so much more access to information than we did back in the 70s, 80s, 90s.

Elmitra Berry 00:32:34

I'm really aging myself.

Elmitra Berry 00:32:36

I think I already did that when I said I was in third grade in 1970.

Mark Taylor 00:32:39

So very specific.

Mark Taylor 00:32:40

Yeah, exactly.

Elmitra Berry 00:32:42

Yeah.

Mark Taylor 00:32:43

And I think the other thing that strikes me at that point is the fact that children also have so many ways that they can show up now.

Mark Taylor 00:32:49

So that sense of, you know, you can get into here or you can do this assignment if you can write really well or you can do this particular thing really well, you know, if, if, if video is your thing, if speaking is your thing, you know, show up in the best way that you can.

Mark Taylor 00:33:03

And I think the world is going in that way that you can, you know, you can be who you want to be and articulate it in that way.

Mark Taylor 00:33:10

There's no point if you're struggling to be able to read and write, force yourself down that avenue when you can articulate yourself really well by speaking, you know, why do it differently if you can, if you can do that and.

Elmitra Berry 00:33:22

Can I share something with you on that?

Elmitra Berry 00:33:26

The school that I taught in, and I was teaching 12 and 13 year olds was in a very low wealth area.

Elmitra Berry 00:33:37

There was federal housing project where many of my children lived.

Elmitra Berry 00:33:42

And when I first got there, most of our kids were five or six years below ability from where they should be.

Elmitra Berry 00:33:50

And so the idea of having my children write essays was just forget it.

Elmitra Berry 00:33:54

That just.

Elmitra Berry 00:33:54

It would be more frustrating for me to try and read and grade them than it was, than it was frustrating for them to create them.

Elmitra Berry 00:34:01

But I found that so many of my children had artistic talents that instead of saying write an essay, answering the 10 questions on page whatever of the history text, tell me in a series of pictures, right?

Elmitra Berry 00:34:15

So they created comic strips essentially that were well drawn with little captions that really created or captured the essence absence of the answers that they needed to give.

Elmitra Berry 00:34:28

They understood the information, but the way they were able to tell it had to come in a way other than paper to pencil and write me an essay.

Elmitra Berry 00:34:38

And I think now the ability to say, okay, give me a, you know, one minute TikTok type video or short form content video or you know, give me a series of pictures or whatever it is.

Elmitra Berry 00:34:53

There's just so many different ways that kids can show what they know besides writing an essay.

Elmitra Berry 00:35:00

I think it's a wonderful time to be able to get children to express themselves and their knowledge in ways that we never could before.

Elmitra Berry 00:35:08

And we as educators, we need to tap into that.

Mark Taylor 00:35:12

It's such an important thing, isn't it?

Mark Taylor 00:35:13

And the other thing that struck me from what you said just a moment ago is the fact that if you hadn't heard what it means to fight or to be your best self or to go after something, then how are you going to know that's the case?

Mark Taylor 00:35:25

And it may be, maybe it's something you get told at Home.

Mark Taylor 00:35:27

Maybe it's not, maybe it should happen in, you know, eighth grade or whatever it happens to be.

Mark Taylor 00:35:33

But actually if you're, if you're a teacher, you know, and there are certain things that you know that are important.

Mark Taylor 00:35:39

Even if you're a seasoned teacher and you've said the same thing many times, it's the first time that child will have probably heard it, or it may well be.

Mark Taylor 00:35:46

So make sure that you're intentional about saying these important things in the right time, in the right way, to the right people.

Mark Taylor 00:35:53

But actually it's only, it's always the first time for that particular person.

Mark Taylor 00:35:56

And it's one of the things that I learned actually, interestingly, when I was doing sort of musicals or, or ballet and opera, because it's that kind of, you know, I've done this maybe 300 times in the last two years.

Mark Taylor 00:36:08

But the chances are it's the first time this audience happens to have seen it.

Mark Taylor 00:36:12

So you owe it to them to be your best self, to share it in the best possible way, even though you may do it in your sleep, because that's the experience that you're, you're here to give to those people.

Elmitra Berry 00:36:22

Yeah, exactly.

Elmitra Berry 00:36:25

Exactly.

Mark Taylor 00:36:26

Is there a resource you'd like to share?

Mark Taylor 00:36:28

And this can be anything from a book, a video, song, podcast, film, can be personal or professional, but just something which you like or has had a bit of an impact.

Elmitra Berry 00:36:37

No, you know, not completely self serving.

Elmitra Berry 00:36:41

I would say my favorite resource is my own writing, but here's why.

Elmitra Berry 00:36:45

You know, yes, it's valuable to other people, but it's most valuable to me in that it's something or.

Elmitra Berry 00:36:53

And I now have two books in publication, one coming and another one that's in research.

Elmitra Berry 00:36:59

But those have stretched me so far in terms of my own learning and ability that when I look at those, I can look back and say, I did that.

Elmitra Berry 00:37:11

I go back and reread something that I've written and sometimes I'm like, I wrote that.

Elmitra Berry 00:37:15

That's really good.

Elmitra Berry 00:37:16

I wrote that.

Elmitra Berry 00:37:18

So for me and I think for other people, as, as whatever it is, I use that as my example for me.

Elmitra Berry 00:37:25

But when we do something that really stretches us and helps us to grow, it's.

Elmitra Berry 00:37:30

It gives you, I think it gives you the.

Elmitra Berry 00:37:36

I don't know which word I want to use.

Elmitra Berry 00:37:38

Maybe it's the whole fire.

Elmitra Berry 00:37:39

It gives you your fire acronym to keep doing more.

Elmitra Berry 00:37:43

You can do this, you can do it better, you can do it again, you can help more people.

Elmitra Berry 00:37:49

And so that's what I lean into when I think about that question, my favorite resource, it's that.

Elmitra Berry 00:37:54

Because that's the resource that keeps me moving.

Mark Taylor 00:37:57

I love that.

Mark Taylor 00:37:58

And you mentioned the acronym there, so it's a perfect timing.

Mark Taylor 00:38:02

And by the acronym we mean feedback, inspiration, resilience and empowerment.

Mark Taylor 00:38:07

And what is it?

Mark Taylor 00:38:09

Is it one word that strikes you?

Mark Taylor 00:38:11

Is it the combination?

Mark Taylor 00:38:11

Is it certain things that over the years you can sort of really identify with?

Elmitra Berry 00:38:16

I think it's an over the years.

Elmitra Berry 00:38:17

And honestly, Mark, when I read your acronym, I thought, oh, that's good, I wish I thought of it.

Elmitra Berry 00:38:22

That's about the highest compliment I can give to anyone on something.

Elmitra Berry 00:38:26

And so I thought about that and I thought, you know what?

Elmitra Berry 00:38:28

It's sort of the story of my life, right?

Elmitra Berry 00:38:31

Seeing my father killed when I was seven, growing up in a single parent household, the racism and discrimination that happens in the US that I lived with in my personal life and my professional life, that fighting to be accepted into grad school when I knew I could do it, but no one else believed I could.

Elmitra Berry 00:38:48

All of that.

Elmitra Berry 00:38:49

Through all of that, when I thought about those four words, I thought about the fact that feedback is a gift.

Elmitra Berry 00:38:56

It's something I say all the time.

Elmitra Berry 00:38:58

Feedback is a gift.

Elmitra Berry 00:38:59

We need to listen and accept it because that can be part of the inspiration for us to move on.

Elmitra Berry 00:39:05

And that's what inspiration is, that, that something that helps us, helps us to move on and move forward.

Elmitra Berry 00:39:13

And when stuff starts coming at you, you've got to have that resilience to push through, right?

Elmitra Berry 00:39:18

And then that empowerment to embrace our potential as we push.

Elmitra Berry 00:39:22

So I think of all of that and I think you have to have fire and having that is what helps us sort of, I don't know, sort of create or cultivate a mindset that values continuous learning, continuous challeng taking risk every single opportunity that we get.

Elmitra Berry 00:39:44

Because ultimately we're the ones with fire that can sort of own our own journeys, right?

Elmitra Berry 00:39:54

And instead of seeing roadblocks and speed bumps and challenges as things to keep us from, they are stepping stones to get us there.

Elmitra Berry 00:40:07

We need those things.

Mark Taylor 00:40:09

Yeah, well, thank you for that.

Mark Taylor 00:40:10

That's.

Mark Taylor 00:40:11

That, that's amazing.

Mark Taylor 00:40:12

And the thing that struck me, which has never struck me before, is that idea of sort of continuity and continually going through these things.

Mark Taylor 00:40:19

Because what you've got one day might be slightly different, you know, being inspired one day, but then needing the resilience the next day, or a different part of a project or a different part of your season of your life.

Mark Taylor 00:40:30

But how they then become the whole.

Mark Taylor 00:40:32

Because as you sort of stand further back and you see how all of that works, and it's one of the things I mention to my pupils often when I'm teaching music is the fact that you're going to go through the same thing each time you're learning something new.

Mark Taylor 00:40:44

We're getting some new skills, some new understanding, then we're going to kind of critique it and get it better and better.

Mark Taylor 00:40:51

Then you'll start to get it a little bit better.

Mark Taylor 00:40:53

You start to feel like, oh, yeah, I've got this now, and where I can, I can do almost anything.

Mark Taylor 00:40:57

And then you do the repetition and you start to feel really good about it.

Mark Taylor 00:41:00

Then you perform it and you're like, yeah, I'm sort, you know, I'm empowered to go and do this again.

Mark Taylor 00:41:05

But then, of course, you start with a new piece and you're back to the learning the new thing.

Mark Taylor 00:41:10

And so it's that you have to embrace the cycle and it, and you have to understand that it works differently, you know, sort of day to day, week to week, month to month.

Mark Taylor 00:41:18

So I love the way that you sort of, sort of combined all that together.

Elmitra Berry 00:41:21

Yeah.

Elmitra Berry 00:41:22

Thank you.

Elmitra Berry 00:41:23

And come for you.

Elmitra Berry 00:41:24

The music.

Elmitra Berry 00:41:25

The music instructor.

Elmitra Berry 00:41:27

Well, I am terrified right now to get people I grew up, up as I grew up.

Elmitra Berry 00:41:30

I played the clarinet and have not touched a clarinet since probably 1982.

Elmitra Berry 00:41:38

And I decided that something I should do in retirement is to pick up an instrument again.

Elmitra Berry 00:41:43

So I got an electronic wind instrument, but I will only play it with the headphones on so that no one else can hear how terrible I am right now.

Elmitra Berry 00:41:52

Eventually, eventually I will allow for feedback.

Mark Taylor 00:41:57

In good time.

Mark Taylor 00:41:58

And, and, and when retirement's hit properly in the education system is fine and you've got as many hours as you need to do to put that practice in and feel like you're as comfortable as you possibly can be.

Mark Taylor 00:42:08

Amazing.

Mark Taylor 00:42:09

Amitra, thank you so much.

Mark Taylor 00:42:10

This has been a fascinating and wonderful conversation.

Mark Taylor 00:42:12

I really do appreciate it.

Mark Taylor 00:42:14

Where should you want people to go and say, find out more about the podcast in the book and the Patreon and all that sort of thing.

Mark Taylor 00:42:20

Where's the one place you want them to go?

Mark Taylor 00:42:22

And we'll also have this listed in the show notes as well.

Elmitra Berry 00:42:24

So, sure, the easiest is probably patreon.com3epodcast, but I am on most social network platforms as almitra berry at Al Mitra Berry.

Elmitra Berry 00:42:36

I'm everywhere except for X, so LinkedIn is the easiest way to find me.

Elmitra Berry 00:42:41

If you DM me on LinkedIn.

Elmitra Berry 00:42:44

I'm there, but I'm also on Threads, Facebook, TikTok.

Elmitra Berry 00:42:50

I'm starting to have fun on TikTok YouTube.

Elmitra Berry 00:42:53

And I'm probably missing one Instagram.

Elmitra Berry 00:42:56

There we go.

Elmitra Berry 00:42:56

I think that's it.

Elmitra Berry 00:42:57

But I'm Traberry and I say thank you.

Elmitra Berry 00:43:01

My father is the one who named me, and when he gave me this name, he did not know how easy it was going to be for everyone to find me.

Mark Taylor 00:43:09

Amazing.

Mark Taylor 00:43:10

Oh, thank you so much, indeed.

Mark Taylor 00:43:11

I really appreciate everything that you're doing.

Mark Taylor 00:43:13

Keep up the great work.

Mark Taylor 00:43:14

And yeah, we'll organize that live show so we can get some, some interaction with everyone in your community on the show as well.

Mark Taylor 00:43:19

So, yeah, thank you so much, indeed.

Elmitra Berry 00:43:21

Thanks for having me.

Elmitra Berry 00:43:22

I look forward to it.

Mark Taylor 00:43:25

Education is not the filling of a pale, but the lighting of a fire.